Dumb question of the month

lcberlin · Post by **lcberlin** » December 18th, 2007, 10:03 am

And maybe of the year.

What do you think of using 9mm Kurz - aka .380 acp - ammunition in a 9mm Makarov pistol? Yes, I mean shooting .380 acp in my P-64. Was just wondering about it. Only dimension that I can find different is case length, the .380 being 1 millimeter shorter than the 9mm Mak. I don't know enough about rimless ammo to know how headspacing works, or chamber depth or any of those mechanics of gunsmithing.

Sure don't want to be the one callin' out, "Hey, y'all, watch this!!"

donnerwetter58 · Post by **donnerwetter58** » December 18th, 2007, 10:12 am

The 9x18 Makarov is not interchangeable with the 380 (9x17).
The 380 case is 1 mm shorter. The 380 nominal bullet diameter is .355". The 9x18 nominal bullet diameter is .365". Accuracy of the 380 round in a 9x18 would be poor and unsafe as well. Don't do it.

Post by **normsutton** » December 18th, 2007, 10:53 am

lcberlin

donnerwetter58 is right don't shoot any other ammo in a 9 x 18 pistol but 9 x 18

on auto loading pistols the bullets head space on the mouth of the case if you don't believe me take the slide off and put the bullet in backwards on the chamber

if you want to shoot 380's buy a gun that shoots 380's

NORM

1dickhurtz · Post by **1dickhurtz** » December 18th, 2007, 11:16 am

I was shooting my P-64 and .380 one day. I loaded .380in the P by mistake. I thought I had a DUD. It did not hurt it...but is of no value to shoot it. It will not shoot right.

lcberlin · Post by **lcberlin** » December 18th, 2007, 12:18 pm

Thanks, all. I don't really want a .380acp, I was just wondering if it would be possible to do. Along the lines of shooting .38s out of a .357 possible to do. I missed the different diameters of the bullets somewhere, thanks for pointing that out. And thanks for the explanation on the headspacing. Guess I will just have to drink more coffee and to put more hair on my chest....lol.

tripper · Post by **tripper** » December 18th, 2007, 12:33 pm

Here's a link that should settle the argument once and for all:

http://www.saami.org/Unsafe_Combinations.cfm

Shoot safely but shoot straight.

trent · Post by **trent** » December 18th, 2007, 12:38 pm

The only dumb questions are the ones not asked, it is probably a testament to your intelligence that you chose to pursue the knowledge by asking others instead of attempting a potentially dangerous trial and error session.

Post by **papabear** » December 18th, 2007, 11:19 pm

lcberlin,

+1 with Trent, but putting a .380 in a 9x19 pistol.........

papabear

anjdrifter · Post by **anjdrifter** » December 19th, 2007, 9:31 am

One of the reasons I do not have a 380 in my bunch is it is too close to the9X18.. I dont want an error at the range or ammo mix up... it can happen my shooting patner did it one day with his p64 and his bersa.. he caught it because the magazine didnt load right....

gunneyrabbit · Post by **gunneyrabbit** » December 24th, 2007, 1:17 am

Tripper,
Good find on the SAMI web site, thanks for the posting, that should put an end to the question and answer period regarding this issue. It seems to keep raising its ugly head periodically. Can it be done? Yes. Is it safe? No seems to be the answer the professionals give. Can you do it and get away with it? Yes for a while, especially if you feel like playing Russian Roulette but the out come will always be the same. Sooner or later you always lose.
Gunney Rabbit.

ourbigbluehouse · Post by **ourbigbluehouse** » December 24th, 2007, 1:32 am

Another dumb question for the group. A friend of mine keeps insisting that the barrel and receiver can be removed by taking out one pin and then swapping it for a .380 thus using cheaper ammo. Any thoughts? Is he talking out of a certain part of his anatomy?

pshootr · Post by **pshootr** » December 24th, 2007, 1:57 am

If you want you can buy a .380 barrel for a Makarov, not for a p64 though. You will need a barrel press after driving out the pin as the barrel is a press fit in the receiver.

<s>It sure looks as if my Gold Dot 9mm Mak JHPs from Georgia Arms are really .380s loaded into Starline 9mm Mak cases. When inserted into the barrel from the muzzle the bullet does not engage the rifling at all, just drops in until the case mouth hits, unlike the Russkie JHPs where the bullet hits the rifling well before the case. I tried some Georgia Arms .380s the same way and could not notice any difference in how they fit at the muzzle. Also, recoil with the G/A ammo was very mild compared to the Russkie.</s>

nbender · Post by **nbender** » December 24th, 2007, 2:03 am

bigblue, excuse me for not even looking to see if one pin can change the barrel (and the receiver? ... I'm not sure about that part?). I'm one of the folks that think you can still buy 9x18 at the going .380 rate or a bit cheaper; 9x18 has a bit more power than .380, and the 9x18 caliber is fun on the merits of being a historical pistol. If you want .380 look at the Bersas.

I think most people here would say that we don't support changes on the P-64 to .380.

nbender · Post by **nbender** » December 24th, 2007, 2:13 am

PsootR - Georgia Arms has switched between the Hornady XTP and the Gold Dot CCI (Speer) 90-grain as the bullets have become available. I understand that they want to mainly produce with the Speer but they have had problems getting CCI to supply so they have periodically made their 9x18 with Hornady while waiting for the 90-grain.

What you report about Georgia Arms loading .380 would be contrary to my experience with their ammo. I've always thought they had good quality control. If you could pull a couple of bullets and take some measurements that may help their reputation. I'd hate to see a single post without some supporing info hurt the firm.

Post by **normsutton** » December 24th, 2007, 5:50 am

ourbigbluehouse

cheaper ammo 380 ,every I've look 380 is the same price as 9 x 18 , you find some 380 that is cheaper, its been on the shelve for 4 or 5 years , but the next time you buy it, it will be higher

NORM

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