Competition

[bartos061]

Hi
Lets make some competition.
Here is Drill #1 in polish army for firing with P-64 pistol. When You go to range next time try to shoot this drill. Write here Your score. My hi score with P-64 was 49 but only once, most time was 40-45points.
DRILL #1 :
Target: target number 23p dimensions are 0,75m x 0,75m(0,75m is 29,52 inch)( on the picture - target is four times smaller than original so You must larger it four times before printing).

Range: 25meters
Position: standing one hand caring.

Ammo: 5rounds
Time: no time limit.
Grades:
(5)Very good – 40 points and more.
(4)Good – 35 to 39 points.
(3)Enough – 30 to 34 points.
(2)Not enough – 0 to 29 points.

Drill #1 was basic and most frequently shooting in polish army and police.

Good luck

bartos

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1st ;D place: {novgarod} score: 45 (10,9,9,9,8)
1st ;D place: {mikethewreck} score: 45
2nd place: ???
3rd place: ???
4th place: ???
5th place: ???

[mikethewreck]

At my age (44) I'd have a hard time seeing (much less hitting) the target at 25 meters!

Most Americans practice pistol shooting at shorter ranges because in self-defense situations longer shots are seldom justifiable.

It just goes to show the accuracy of the P-64!

[novgarod]

Well, mikethewreck, add 20 years and you are in my age category. Hey, Bartos, do we get a handicap for senior citizens? Ha!

I think this competition should be fun, and as B52stan suggests, maybe we will find out that the 90-95 gr cartidges will be the most accurate. Only time and scores will tell! At 25 meters, I wonder if taking off my trifocals will help . . . laser, red-dot scope, fiber optics might fit . . .

[fjblackesq]

come on guys, no telescopic sights, NO red dots. etc., justr plain factory iorn sights, please, and remember that 's 25 METERS not 25 FEET.... no senior citizen discounts/handicaps LOL

[b52stan]

Novgarod, don't know what the accuracy will show with repect to bullet wt, but I do know that 20 - 25% more mass in the bullet will cause more recoil, and usually dictate a longer overall cartridge length, unless you handload.

Also am quite sure that the P-64 will feed and function more optimally when overall cartridge length is also kept close to the design specifications.

I'll bet those heavier wt. loads were made for larger, heavier weapons chambered for the 9X18 cartridge. They may do OK in the larger, heavier Maks, but the light diminuative P-64 deserves a lighter diet.

Stan

[novgarod]

I was just kidding about the ancillary sights - no humor out there, fjblackesq?

When you get to be my age, that's about all there is! Ha! Bartos has set the conditions and so, if there are 39.37 inches in a meter, we will need to move a 25 yard target back 2.3 feet or, Bartos, is 25 yards OK?

[herrmannek]

100 yards is like 91meters.. but I say from memory...

[amd6547]

I always shoot at 25 yards, and have no problem hitting a pop can at that range with every shot from my P64. Self defence isn't justified at 25 yards? maybe in your world. I, for one believe in streching the accurate range of my pistols. 50 yards is not a problem for me with most pistols, and I am very dangerous out to 100 yards with most full size handguns like my glock 23 40 s&w or cz52.

[xelloss]

We do most of our handgun shooting here at around 25 yds. at bowling pins... Bastards can be a a pain to hit sometimes at that range... That being said, most handgun firefights do occur in the 5-15yds range...

Can't wait for the rain to break here, so I can try this drill out... ;D ;D ;D

-Mark

[mikethewreck]

I'm not staying don't shoot at 25 yards. Just that many of us (me included) focus more on the close-in shooting than the long distance. If the criminal was 25 yards away I might be better off moving to cover than trying to shoot back right away.

And I'm glad you top guns are on our side!

Unfortunately, the indoor range I belong to is not a 25 yard range. It's a 20 yarder, and I do shoot some at max range.

Can someone figure out a (US) standard target equivalent to Bartosz's? I don't know if our home computer printers could make a 0.75m2 target out of his picture. If we could, we would then be able to do a "postal" match where everyone on the forum takes their shot, sends in their target to one of us for validation, and then the results are posted.

It sounds like some of y'all are up for it!

[mikethewreck]

Is this target close enough?

http://alcotarget.com/osb/itemdetails.cfm?ID=173

[mikethewreck]

Or (better yet), can someone figure out how we can print out the Bartosz target in the proper size?

[novgarod]

Made a few calculations after downloading Bartos' target on Adobe Photoshop; enlarged image size to 1/2 actual, cropped out the bullseye and printed it out. Yes, I did this before having any drinks!

Bullseye = 60 mm radius to inside ring (dia of line separating circles is 7 mm or ~1/4"); therefore, dia = 120 mm or 4.72"; outer limit = 132 mm dia or 5.19". Based upon NRA scoring rules you would need to get the majority of your bullet hole inside that 5.19", i.e, you are essentially staying within a 5" circle to get a bullseye.

Now there is a systematic measurement of 60mm from the outer white ring line to the next inner scoring line - for example -

measure from the outer bullseye ring to the inner 9 ring and it is another 60 mm, so you would have the following progression of circles with the following radii:

10 ring 60, 67 mm 2.36" inner radius
9 ring 127,134 mm 5.00" inner radius
8 ring 194, 201 mm 7.64" inner radius
7 ring 261, 268 mm 10.28" inner radius
6 ring 328, 337 mm 12.91" inner radius

Bartos, please correct this with your measurements.

I drew the bullseye centered within a 9" paper plate. You would have a scoring range of 45 to a perfect 50 if you kept all 5 shots on the plate. Some of us may wish to use a much larger dinner plate! Ha!

Happy New Year!

[amd6547]

I prefer to shoot at an outdoor range because-
1. The local indoor range is a tremendous rip-off.
2. I like being outdoors and when shooting outdoors, I sometimes find it fun and useful to simply pick out a point on the dirt backstop and shoot at it.
At the state operated outdoor range I shoot at, The shortest range is 25 yards and you are not allowed to shoot in front of the firing line.
Moving to cover or shooting back right away are obviously situation dependent, but practicing at longer range gives the confidence to take the shot if, god forbid, it becomes neccessary.
Personally, though I have been shooting for 30 years and have carried concealed on streets, in woods, and on mountains, I practice situational awareness, de-escalation, conflict avoidance, and retreat.

[abwehr]

Most of us that do carry handguns try to practice in a "defensive or combat mode" and this is what we need to be proficient in a stress situation. But, the target practice "bartos" is talking about is "competition mode". There is a big difference in the two. The competition mode is to see how well you can shoot a particular pistol or load when you are not under any stress and trying to do better than than others; fun competition.

In my opinion, it is best to learn to shoot your carry pistol in both modes as there may be a point when you need a well placed shot as "amd6547" stated, "practicing at longer range gives the confidence to take the shot if, god forbid, it becomes neccessary." Also, it is just fun to see how well you can do with the pistol!