CZAK finally makes it to the range

manicmechanic · Post by **manicmechanic** » April 28th, 2007, 8:12 am

Well I earlier tried to post this, only to get an error message after typing for a, well let's just say a while.
I was quite impressed with the over all results of yesterdays visit to the range. I only had one failure out of approx. 125 rnds fired. That was after 70+ rounds of various ammo, ranging from Win. 95gr. fmj, 50 total, Brown Bear 92 gr fmj, 7 total, Barnaul 95gr HP, 7 total, CCI Blazer 95gr tmj, 50 total, and Hornady 95gr jhp/xtp, 7 total. The ammo I had the failure with was CCI, after the 3rd round of 7 it jammed, I dropped the mag, cleared, reloaded rnd into mag, and never looked back.
Except for the first time firing the pistol, which was loaded w/6, all following times fired were 6+1.
My hand did get a bit sore after 70+ so I put on a fingerless mechanics glove until the final 7 of the Hornady. I think the seam of the grip being slightly uneven was the cause. I picked up a Hogue slip on grip to try on the next visit.
Most of my double action shots went high and right 6 inches, at times I couldn't even pull thru it, so I'm looking for some recommended main spring# 's to change to. I like the safety aspect of the dbl act. pull, but I've got to be able to pull all the way, every time for me to carry this, which is what I got this one for. I'd also like some input on the recoil #'s, 20 or 22#'s sounds familiar in most of my reads, can't say for sure what was working best on the main spring though.
So for being bare stock, except for 3M grip tape on front strap and BIC Wite Out on the front site blade, I'm very happy with the purchase of this Polish Prize! My brother shot a 6+1 out of it and didn't like the D/A or the recoil, WIMP!, he'll come around, he was firing my XD40 in the next lane over and limped a jam. He also shot my Sig 220 45 and Browning HP 9mm, and a friend of mines Para Carry 12 and its little bro, the Companion in a single stack. He just got his CPL and is looking for a primary carry, after I get my 64 to a good D/A and the recoil more to his liking, I'm sure a CZAK will be an option for backup or summer carry for him like it is for me

.
I did try to capture some of the brass from the Win. ammo, but only managed to round up about 15 or 20, man this sucker would be dangerous to stand to the right of. I took one to the forehead off the partition wall and it left a mark. Upping the recoil # should lessen this I believe.
Well, again thanks for the info that led me to this great pistol, and thanks for the info that I'll gain in the future about keeping it running in fine form.
BTW if anyone has extra original mags for sale let me know please. If not if anyone wants to do a small group buy from Forward Supply on their new P64 mags, I haven't heard any bad reviews on it so far, I'd be interested in doing so. I don't think I really need 6 mags, in order to meet their minimum order req., but if that's the only way to get some at a reasonable price, ya gotta do what ya gotta do! Hey, it was a real joy sharing about this great pistol, and hope I didn't wear out anyones patience or eyes

.

dolang1 · Post by **dolang1** » April 28th, 2007, 8:24 am

manicmechanic, enjoyed your post. Very similar to my first experience with the P-64. My brother was also with me but he was the one calling me a wimp because I was the one doing all of the whining about the recoil. I'm also an avid brass chaser. Later Don

carguy · Post by **carguy** » April 28th, 2007, 12:05 pm

I will be interested to hear what your final mod will be.

I get confused when reading about the recoil spring, trigger spring, firing pin spring etc. I never truly understood which one to change alone or in unison.

If the trigger spring needs to be lighter to ease the DA trigger pull then it may cause light primer hits and the mag to fall out. The recoil spring needs to be stiffer to absorb more of the recoil shock but could that damage the frame and/or throw off the timing by not allowing the slide to come back with enough speed and force to properly cock the hammer. And will it force the slide forward with too much force that could damage these "old" pistols. Finally do we need to change the firing pin spring at all, only if the trigger spring allows for light strikes?!?!? I think I got it but I'm not sure, #20 recoil spring with #18 trigger spring and don't change the firing pin spring. Is that the concensis?? I'd love to know. And yes to ward off the evil spirits, everyone is different and there will never be "the right combination" for everyone. But which one best mimicks operation with stock springs but with reasonable DA pull?

bzinggg · Post by **bzinggg** » April 28th, 2007, 4:15 pm

carguy,
When you remove the slide to clean the P-64. the large spring stuck to the barrel is the RECOIL spring. The trigger return spring is very small and behind the trigger. The hammer spring sits vertically behind the grip frame and also puts pressure on the magazine latch to keep it in place. Some folks call the hammer spring the mainspring, which is not technically correct. The firing pin spring fits around the firing pin inside it's chamber in the slide.

The hammer spring is responsible for the weight of the trigger pull. The origional hammer springs run about 25 or 27 and maybe as little as 23 on some P-64s, making the double action pull stiff.

I use my pistols stock. From what I've heard, though, the 20 lb. recoil spring from Wolff installed in combination with the new firing pin spring that they provide in the package with the recoil spring and the 18 lb. hammer spring provides a well balanced action which is reliable, holds the mag in place and allows no undue impact of the slide upon the frame.

carguy · Post by **carguy** » April 28th, 2007, 4:48 pm

Thanks, see I confused the trigger spring and the hammer spring (I'm thinking 3 springs not 4). So the trigger spring is left untouched, 20 recoil, 18 hammer and use the firing pin spring supplied. Exellent!! I learn something new everyday!

bzinggg · Post by **bzinggg** » April 28th, 2007, 6:07 pm

There is actually one more spring in the pistol. Can you figure out what it is? You have 30 seconds.....

;D

carguy · Post by **carguy** » April 28th, 2007, 7:34 pm

Mag spring?

(sorry it was longer than 30 seconds but I was looking over some bulgarian surplus 7.62x54r ammo and sorting out any splits, dents and scary looking ones, then my son grabbed me to help put together a new basketball hoop until it started to rain)

Mag spring?

Hey please give me your opinion...way off topic...I have 16 of the afore mentioned cartridges that have more than a scratch almost like a little groove in the neck where the bullet is crimped and nearer to the shoulder (1/32" long, some like pitting). Are these potential weakness that may cause problems when shooting. Should I discard. I'm sure if any of you shoot Masin Nagants you've seen these in the brass. Almost look like defects but not splits. Also, some dented ones on the shoulder and below on the main part of the casing...safe or not? Will this impair proper seating in the chamber?? Some dents are big obviously discard but minor ones???

Thanks 8~)

Post by **normsutton** » April 28th, 2007, 7:43 pm

bzinggg
slide stop spring
I think there is a sear spring
and almost forgot 2 plunger springs ( 1 for the safety and 1 for the extractor)

NORM

Post by **normsutton** » April 28th, 2007, 7:51 pm

carguy
when in doubt throw it out
you can always pull the bullets and reload them later in brass cases

NORM

carguy · Post by **carguy** » April 28th, 2007, 9:33 pm

Thats what I'm doing, they are cheap enough. Now that I'm playing with the surplus ammo, I think I'll not be cheap next order and avoid the corrosive old stuff and just buy new ammo.

bzinggg · Post by **bzinggg** » April 28th, 2007, 10:05 pm

I was thinking of the slide stop spring, and I remembered the extractor while mowing the grass. Completely forgot the safety. ;D

I remember all those posts a while back about the shape of the safety plunger, and Norm having to make one for someone, I think.

I got mine cleaned up real good before I used the safety a lot and I've not had to do any repair except for dissassembly for cleaning, during which I had to get the trigger return spring back in once. The soaking and blowing out with air pressure, then oiling the safety made mine smooth and snappy.

To readers new to this stuff, please don't blow solvents without a full face shield for yourself and others in the area. If you're not good enough to control the direction of the spray and richochet, and contain the exposure of pressure and solvent to a safe area, then don't use this method. Parts cleaning tanks are better. But, remember, even if you are dissassembling and cleaning in a bucket with a rag, you can still splash solvent in your eye. You will be sorry if you do.

barnett3006 · Post by **barnett3006** » April 28th, 2007, 11:13 pm

dont forget about the trigger guard plunger spring.

bzinggg · Post by **bzinggg** » April 29th, 2007, 1:21 am

Post by **normsutton** » April 29th, 2007, 2:02 am

barnett3006

your right I had completely forgot about that one

thank you

NORM

garry · Post by **garry** » April 29th, 2007, 11:34 pm

hey Carguy, I have several of those 7.62x54r cartridges that have the "dimple/line" running from the shoulder to the mouth and i noticed them AFTER i shot them. They shot fine but some of them had holes where the HOT GASES burned thru the side of the cases !! SCARY !! On my cases, that "dimple thing" looks like the case was cut open and material removed ,then brazed shut in a smaller neck size or something! kinda looks like epoxy in it too ! who knows anything about this phenomena? TY. G

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