Does the P-64 definitely not have a drop safety?
Does the P-64 definitely not have a drop safety?
I am suddenly wanting a P-64, after reading about how great they are. (I am already looking at nice checkered walnut grips for it before even finding the gun to buy!)
My one concern is that it appears there is no sort of "drop safety" to prevent the hammer from firing the gun if dropped with the thumb safety off. Do I understand correctly? I always thought this was a normal feature of any modern firearm.
My plan is to carry it chambered, uncocked, with the thumb safety on. I understand that people have different comfort levels with different carry conditions, and that the DA trigger pull is very stiff, etc. But this is how I want to carry it, and not having a drop safety would probably be a deal-breaker. I would also want it to be drop-safe with the safety off.
(I assume the Walther PPK, which the P-64 is supposedly modeled after, has a drop safety, correct?)
Can you guys shed some light on this?
Thanks!
David
My one concern is that it appears there is no sort of "drop safety" to prevent the hammer from firing the gun if dropped with the thumb safety off. Do I understand correctly? I always thought this was a normal feature of any modern firearm.
My plan is to carry it chambered, uncocked, with the thumb safety on. I understand that people have different comfort levels with different carry conditions, and that the DA trigger pull is very stiff, etc. But this is how I want to carry it, and not having a drop safety would probably be a deal-breaker. I would also want it to be drop-safe with the safety off.
(I assume the Walther PPK, which the P-64 is supposedly modeled after, has a drop safety, correct?)
Can you guys shed some light on this?
Thanks!
David
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- Senior member
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Re: Does the P-64 definitely not have a drop safety?
Some years do, some don't. The 76 definitely has a notch on the mechanism that keeps the hammer from plunging fully forward without the trigger depressed, but I wouldn't trust it 100%.
Re: Does the P-64 definitely not have a drop safety?
These do not have a transfer bar safety if that is what you are talking about.
I think there are some old threads about drop and fires.
I think there are some old threads about drop and fires.
Re: Does the P-64 definitely not have a drop safety?
It does not have a firing pin block safety, nor does it have a half cock safety or anything like that.
Also you are incorrect on your assertion that the P-64 is a modern firearm, and would have a firing pin block safety. When the P-64 was designed, firing pin block safeties, and half cock safeties, etc were not necessarily a standard feature. Look at the Beretta 92 for instance; When it first went through U.S. Army testing, it did not have a firing pin block safety. That was added later as the 92FS at the request of the U.S. Army.
Even though it doesn't mechanically have these safeties the P-64 should not be a deal breaker for you. If you read though this thread, you will see that the P-64 would hold up if dropped and not fire.
Also we have had people come to the forum to ask for advice on cleaning the P-64 after dropping it.
Besides a drop safety is not 100% either. The trigger can still catch on something on the way down. I've read about a retired reservist who while at the range dropped his 92FS. While it was falling it rotated muzzle toward him, simultaneously he tried to catch it, his thumb ended up in the trigger guard and fire the weapon. I've also heard of people accidentally catch the trigger on their Glocks. A warrant officer was using a holster made for the Glock to have a light mounted on it, but without a light there was enough play in the holster to catch the trigger. The P-64 trigger pull is much heavier though and might have prevented those instances.
Anyway, don't let this stop you from getting a P-64. They are great guns.
Also you are incorrect on your assertion that the P-64 is a modern firearm, and would have a firing pin block safety. When the P-64 was designed, firing pin block safeties, and half cock safeties, etc were not necessarily a standard feature. Look at the Beretta 92 for instance; When it first went through U.S. Army testing, it did not have a firing pin block safety. That was added later as the 92FS at the request of the U.S. Army.
Even though it doesn't mechanically have these safeties the P-64 should not be a deal breaker for you. If you read though this thread, you will see that the P-64 would hold up if dropped and not fire.
Also we have had people come to the forum to ask for advice on cleaning the P-64 after dropping it.
Besides a drop safety is not 100% either. The trigger can still catch on something on the way down. I've read about a retired reservist who while at the range dropped his 92FS. While it was falling it rotated muzzle toward him, simultaneously he tried to catch it, his thumb ended up in the trigger guard and fire the weapon. I've also heard of people accidentally catch the trigger on their Glocks. A warrant officer was using a holster made for the Glock to have a light mounted on it, but without a light there was enough play in the holster to catch the trigger. The P-64 trigger pull is much heavier though and might have prevented those instances.
Anyway, don't let this stop you from getting a P-64. They are great guns.
Weasel
When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence.
When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence.
Re: Does the P-64 definitely not have a drop safety?
+1 a great bargain and CCW gun.
Carry with the safety on and don't worry about it.
Carry with the safety on and don't worry about it.
Laugh Hard and Often.
Gary
Gary
Re: Does the P-64 definitely not have a drop safety?
Thanks for the info. The other thread on this subject that was recommended above had some very useful info, too.
I will keep reading through this stuff and see what I can conclude. It seems like the consensus is that it has a spring-loaded firing pin for preventing accidental discharge when dropped, under most conditions.
I also didn't realize that among others, the Beretta 92 originally didn't have a drop safety. This is particularly relevant because I have a 92 F that is my primary pistol. I now want to know if the Italian 92 F I have has a drop safety. I'm guessing that because it was produced in the same time period as the M9, it probably is. I will research this further.
The 92 is way too big for me to carry regularly, thus the search for a very small carry gun, like the P-64, which I like because it has the same action and controls as the 92.
The other thread referenced above mentions the FEG SMC-918 as having a definite drop safety. So, naturally I'm starting to look at those, too, and they are really cool. But they look to be very scarce.
Any additional information on this subject, and now the 918, will be appreciated. Thanks!
David
I will keep reading through this stuff and see what I can conclude. It seems like the consensus is that it has a spring-loaded firing pin for preventing accidental discharge when dropped, under most conditions.
I also didn't realize that among others, the Beretta 92 originally didn't have a drop safety. This is particularly relevant because I have a 92 F that is my primary pistol. I now want to know if the Italian 92 F I have has a drop safety. I'm guessing that because it was produced in the same time period as the M9, it probably is. I will research this further.
The 92 is way too big for me to carry regularly, thus the search for a very small carry gun, like the P-64, which I like because it has the same action and controls as the 92.
The other thread referenced above mentions the FEG SMC-918 as having a definite drop safety. So, naturally I'm starting to look at those, too, and they are really cool. But they look to be very scarce.
Any additional information on this subject, and now the 918, will be appreciated. Thanks!
David
Re: Does the P-64 definitely not have a drop safety?
I have an SMC-918 nice carry piece. I CCW in the summer with it.
Yes they are hard to find.
Yes they are hard to find.
Laugh Hard and Often.
Gary
Gary
Re: Does the P-64 definitely not have a drop safety?
Maybe I spoke too soon. Now I'm learning that these things have a real issue with it being possible to fire by the hammer dropping with the safety off (and finger off the trigger):
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4378
Is that a different issue than dropping it, though? In other words, if it doesn't have a safety to prevent it from firing when the hammer drops, can it still have a drop safety?
How about that 918? What's its system?
I realize I am getting into the territory of worrying myself to death about this, but I think it's a valid thing to want to know.
David
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4378
Is that a different issue than dropping it, though? In other words, if it doesn't have a safety to prevent it from firing when the hammer drops, can it still have a drop safety?
How about that 918? What's its system?
I realize I am getting into the territory of worrying myself to death about this, but I think it's a valid thing to want to know.
David
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Re: Does the P-64 definitely not have a drop safety?
As with a Ruger revolver that has a transfer bar safety, both pistols will fire if the hammer is pulled far enough back and released. On a Ruger it is approx. 2/3 the way back to cocked. This works great for an accidental hammer snag and release, but only to the 2/3 point. Members on this forum have thumbed back a P-64, with safety off, and found the pistol will fire before it is cocked. There is a thread somewhere on this and most members agree that the P-64 should have the saftey on. The "security" sear tooth on the hammer is for the drop part of the safe carry. This prevents forward movement of the hammer from the at rest position. How far of a drop I do not know. However it is the hammer being pulled back accidentially and then relaesed, with safety off, that is a real concern if one wish to carry this way.
Re: Does the P-64 definitely not have a drop safety?
Eating dinner now. But I'll answer this real fast to save you the time.db4570 wrote:I also didn't realize that among others, the Beretta 92 originally didn't have a drop safety. This is particularly relevant because I have a 92 F that is my primary pistol. I now want to know if the Italian 92 F I have has a drop safety. I'm guessing that because it was produced in the same time period as the M9, it probably is. I will research this further.
The 92 is way too big for me to carry regularly, thus the search for a very small carry gun, like the P-64, which I like because it has the same action and controls as the 92.
If you read through the history of the Beretta 92FS, you'll see that the firing pin block was added in 1980 to the 92SB version. The 92F was designated in 1983 incorporating all the same safety features, including the firing pin block. So yours would have it as well. If you look at the old adds for the 92SB you will see where to look for the firing pin block (C). It's the little rectangle that sticks out just in front of the rear sight as you pull the trigger.
I have a 92 and a 92FS. Side by side you can see all the changes that have been made in the history of the 92FS. I also have a 1951 (the father of the 92) with that in the mix, you really start to see how much Military side arms have evolved over the years. Love shooting all three of them.
Weasel
When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence.
When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence.
Re: Does the P-64 definitely not have a drop safety?
In addition, with the safety on, the firing pin is locked and cannot move forward.There is a thread somewhere on this and most members agree that the P-64 should have the saftey on. The "security" sear tooth on the hammer is for the drop part of the safe carry. This prevents forward movement of the hammer from the at rest position.
Re: Does the P-64 definitely not have a drop safety?
Thanks for the informative responses. I think that as much as I like the small size, good looks, and +P+ (compared to 380) performance of the round, this gun is not my ultimate carry gun because of these relatively minor safety issues. It's too bad because it seems really cool, and the community supporting it here are great. Perhaps we'll cross paths again.
David
David
Re: Does the P-64 definitely not have a drop safety?
Safety on, don't drop it. Easy.db4570 wrote:Thanks for the informative responses. I think that as much as I like the small size, good looks, and +P+ (compared to 380) performance of the round, this gun is not my ultimate carry gun because of these relatively minor safety issues. It's too bad because it seems really cool, and the community supporting it here are great. Perhaps we'll cross paths again.
David
What's the issue? The firing pin is held captive by the safety if its engaged.
Re: Does the P-64 definitely not have a drop safety?
db4570 wrote:My one concern is that it appears there is no sort of "drop safety" to prevent the hammer from firing the gun if dropped with the thumb safety off. Do I understand correctly? I always thought this was a normal feature of any modern firearm.
My plan is to carry it chambered, uncocked, with the thumb safety on. I understand that people have different comfort levels with different carry conditions, and that the DA trigger pull is very stiff, etc. But this is how I want to carry it, and not having a drop safety would probably be a deal-breaker. I would also want it to be drop-safe with the safety off.
Laugh Hard and Often.
Gary
Gary
Re: Does the P-64 definitely not have a drop safety?
Yes, but
Oh well. The P64 isn't the correct platform, I guess.db4570 wrote: My plan is to carry it chambered, uncocked, with the thumb safety on.