New spring weights and extractor question

gmountain · Post by **gmountain** » February 11th, 2007, 5:35 pm

I will probably change out the hammer spring to a 17#. Did any of you change the recoil spring to 20# or 24#? I am having a hard time figuring out what the factory spring is rated at.

Als, part two. The extractor seems pretty easy to move with my finger. Is this normal for a P-64? That's a pretty nice, large extractor, btw.

brigade · Post by **brigade** » February 11th, 2007, 11:39 pm

I bought the wolfe hammer and recoil spring but have not chosen to replace any thing at this point since everything is working perfectly on all 7 guns I have. I might try a 19lb hammer spring but nothing lighter.

vermonter · Post by **vermonter** » February 12th, 2007, 4:51 am

Interesting. Where are you getting these springs that are engineered for the P-64?

gmountain · Post by **gmountain** » February 12th, 2007, 7:33 am

Interesting. Where are you getting these springs that are engineered for the P-64?

Wolff-from the info that is posted in this forum, using the PPK springs.

vermonter · Post by **vermonter** » February 13th, 2007, 12:53 am

Interesting.... Does Wolff market these as made for the P-64 or PPK, or are you using springs engineered for another gun (PPK)? I am an experienced armorer and I would never use parts not engineered for that weapon except in a dire emergency, in a foreign country where my life depended on that weapon working, AND there were not proper parts available. I guess if you're a hobbiest and are using it for target shooting, it's ok. Just remember to put the originals back on correctly if you EVER sell it. I would not want to buy a gun for self defense that was modified by an amateur. I have many years as an Air Force Small Arms armorer and I consider myself an amateur compared to those who engineer things for a living. People mod guns all the time like the 1911. Remember those are drop in parts made for that gun in a factory. I have modded Hi Powers, but I would never use 1911 parts to do it.
Just an opinion from someone who would never want a "suprise" when buying a used gun for self defense.

gmountain · Post by **gmountain** » February 13th, 2007, 8:26 am

Interesting.... Does Wolff market these as made for the P-64 or PPK, or are you using springs engineered for another gun (PPK)? I am an experienced armorer and I would never use parts not engineered for that weapon except in a dire emergency, in a foreign country where my life depended on that weapon working, AND there were not proper parts available. I guess if you're a hobbiest and are using it for target shooting, it's ok. Just remember to put the originals back on correctly if you EVER sell it. I would not want to buy a gun for self defense that was modified by an amateur. I have many years as an Air Force Small Arms armorer and I consider myself an amateur compared to those who engineer things for a living.

There is quite a bit of information here about using the PPK hammer springs to fix the DA trigger on the P64. Would you feel better about it if Wolff took the exact same spring and just changed the name?

gmountain · Post by **gmountain** » February 13th, 2007, 8:28 am

. I guess if you're a hobbiest and are using it for target shooting, it's ok.

Anyone buying one of these guns would be a hobbiest, since noe of us are in the Polish military or police, as far as I know. I might use the gun to carry sometimes. It fits in a pocket pretty easily.

vermonter · Post by **vermonter** » February 14th, 2007, 10:51 pm

gmountain.... After talking with Wolff I was informed that they would be building the springs from the ground floor up. They stated they do not reccomend using PPK springs and to do so is at you own risk. The P-64 was designed for a certain diameter recoil spring with one end that screws on the barrel tightly. I have been told the the PPK springs are NOT an exact fit and there is some sloppiness with them.

gmountain · Post by **gmountain** » February 14th, 2007, 11:28 pm

The P-64 was designed for a certain diameter recoil spring with one end that screws on the barrel tightly. I have been told the the PPK springs are NOT an exact fit and there is some sloppiness with them.

I understand there are issues with the recoil spring. I haven't heard of any problems with the hammer spring, at least on this board. The hammer spring fix seems pretty tried and true.

saands · Post by **saands** » March 4th, 2007, 7:52 pm

Vermonteer: I respect your opinion as an armorer and can appreciate your zero tolerance for non-engineered solutions. As an engineer, I frequently find myself in the unenviable position of having to modify other people's designs ... often without the benefit of being able to talk to the original designer. I make it my habit to understand the system that I am modifying before tools ever touch metal and to also understand what it is that I am trying to accomplish. I am not a gunsmith. I am not a firearm designer. I am not an armorer. I do, however, have a fair amount of experience with springs and I can tell you that I am a LOT more comfortable with people using a PP mainspring (which is under less stress than the original and therefore NOT likely to fail under load) in their P64 than I am with them taking a belt sander to the original ... a technique that I saw once in an AGI armorers course VHS for the SKS

At least the PP springs retain their consistency and temper when they are in a P64.

The interesting thing about spring design is that there are a whole host of variables that come into play. Is the PP mainspring the perfect size for the P64? No ... absolutely not ... but IMHO it is one of many different spring configurations that can be utilized to provide the characteristics that the P64 needs. I won't say nearly as much about the HK spring used as a recoil spring ... that one IS a kludge and I've said as much many times before ... and I wouldn't have it in any gun that was for serious use.

Thanks for getting with Wolff ... many of us have called them, but you seem to have gotten the ball rolling on real springs when no one else could.

I look forward to learning from your experience!

Saands

steve98664 · Post by **steve98664** » March 5th, 2007, 3:16 am

I work in engineering too. If there is a stock solution, I try to use that. However, much of the time I have to improvise carefully, and with an educated, informed make-it-work attitude.

I like the fixes posted here. With surplus pistols, you don't have an engineered, manufactured solution most of the time. Wolff is coming out with some in this case so its great to have those.

I'm not sure this is the right placed to ding on folks who gone to the effort and time to make some things work for a pistol that hasn't had any engineered parts made, until now.

Incidentally, what about a safety spring? What about other parts in the pistol that might break? Should we retire our P64's or use broken/worn parts? Is it better to replace parts with quality made to fit parts? You have to throw a bit of realism in here.

Would you rather purchase a P64 that has a bad safety with the original spring or one that has been repaired with a best fit, working solution? I think I'd return everything on my P64 to stock before selling it, but I'm sure the new buyer would want any fixes I've made or bought.

steve98664 · Post by **steve98664** » March 5th, 2007, 3:55 am

Incidentally, Wolff is great and I'd like to see every spring on the P64 available, safety, mags.....

Thanks for getting them to make some springs. I have written them more than once in the past inquiring. They have always mentioned that some time in the near future they'll have them.

If available, I go through and replace recoil, mag springs and any others needed on surplus pistols I buy, when they're available.

vermonter · Post by **vermonter** » March 5th, 2007, 5:16 am

Steve, Didn't mean to "ding" any of the fine folks on here. I just remember a post where a gun shop or pawn shop changed out the hammer spring and this resulted in failure 2 fire as well as a "hair" S/A trigger. If Wolff comes through this week it all a moot point. It took lots of persuading to get them to take action. They are good guys and make a good product that I trust!

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