trigger does not release hammer.....

[ar10ar15man]

gun empty, mag in, dry fire all you want. use the safety/decocker....just fine. pull the slide back on an empty mag and the slide locks back. pull the mag, pull the slide back and it goes forward.

so empty it wooks fine.

took it to the range ( to shoot some 93gr cast). load the mag, rack the slide, pull the trigger and nothing.
hammer is cocked, will not release. nada...zip , zero.
cycle thru the safety. safe no change, full on hammer drops. manually re-cock....same thing.

multiple times and finally the gun goes off.

shoot the full mag. try again , the same thing.

mag is serial numbered to the gun, 1977......do not remeber if i have fired this one before( i have had 6 over the last yr or so)

new recoil and main spring, may have done the firing pin sprin too on this one..i have three.



help

mike

[ar10ar15man]

what 'tells" the gun that the mag is empty ?

is this possible a nose profile issue ?

just thinking out loud

mike

[normsutton]

mike
was it going into full battery ,I KNOW you cleaned the gun before you ever shot it right
, if not going into full battery 2 thing the bullet is to long or to big of dia.

NORM

[gloob]

Hey, Mike.

Is the trigger completely missing, as if it's still on safe? A good cleaning might fix it, but you might want to at least know why this happens. This sounds like a weak trigger return spring.

When you take the gun off safe, the trigger return spring has to push the trigger bar and the disconnector back up to firing position. If the spring is weak, it won't move these parts up all the way... at first. But every time you pull the trigger the bar moves laterally, which loosens up any static friction; now, the weak but constant upwards pressure finally gets the trigger bar high enough to engage the sear - on the second or third pull. Holding the pistol upside down or whacking the top of the slide will also help the bar to engage.

If this is the problem, you can clearly see it without disassembling the pistol. Make sure the trigger is currently engaging, properly. Now look at the trigger bar between the top of the grips and the slide on the right side of the gun. Put the gun on safe. The bar moves down. Now take it off safe. If the bar doesn't immediately pop back all the way up to the original position, then you know there's your problem. It might move back only halfway, and then slowly get dragged back up during the subsequent trigger pull, and that's bad!

[juniustaylor]

I do believe the grips can affect your trigger bar as well. I bought a set of the Zee grips and had to remove a bit of plastic from the inside because they were affecting the trigger bar. But, that doesn't explain why it worked when the magazine was empty. It should not make a difference at all. Give it a good examination and see if anything looks out of place or out of the ordinary.

[ar10ar15man]

mike
was it going into full battery ,I KNOW you cleaned the gun before you ever shot it right
, if not going into full battery 2 thing the bullet is to long or to big of dia.

NORM

naw i chambered a dummy round and all is good there.....but i will double check.

mike

[ar10ar15man]

the bar moves fine when empty.
i will have to go back the range and check with a loaded gun.

thanks
mike

[normsutton]

mike


give me a call, my No. is in this thread , viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1821

NORM

[ar10ar15man]

Hey, Mike.

Is the trigger completely missing, as if it's still on safe? A good cleaning might fix it, but you might want to at least know why this happens. This sounds like a weak trigger return spring.

When you take the gun off safe, the trigger return spring has to push the trigger bar and the disconnector back up to firing position. If the spring is weak, it won't move these parts up all the way... at first. But every time you pull the trigger the bar moves laterally, which loosens up any static friction; now, the weak but constant upwards pressure finally gets the trigger bar high enough to engage the sear - on the second or third pull. Holding the pistol upside down or whacking the top of the slide will also help the bar to engage.

If this is the problem, you can clearly see it without disassembling the pistol. Make sure the trigger is currently engaging, properly. Now look at the trigger bar between the top of the grips and the slide on the right side of the gun. Put the gun on safe. The bar moves down. Now take it off safe. If the bar doesn't immediately pop back all the way up to the original position, then you know there's your problem. It might move back only halfway, and then slowly get dragged back up during the subsequent trigger pull, and that's bad!

me thinks we have a bingo!!!
put a dummy round in this am and guess what?
the trigger bar does not return when the safety is taken off safe.

so what is the fix and why does it only do it with a round in the chamber ?


thanks guys...

mike

[normsutton]

mike
try cleaning the chamber with some acetone& a bore brush, there might be a build up of lacquer, also wants the dia. of the bullets you are using, just because they fire in one doesn't mean they will fit in all guns ,

NORM

[juniustaylor]

there might be a build up of liqueur

Sounds like your gun needs to attend Alcoholics Anonymous.

[normsutton]

feel better

NORM

[gloob]

Well, as to why it happens only when a round is chambered, no clue. Maybe Murphy's law?

The fix would be to buy one of Norm's stronger replacement trigger return springs.

It should also go without saying that using a good gun grease on the trigger bar and disconnector can help out, but I wouldn't rely on a gun that needs to be super clean and lubed in order to get off even a single shot. So I'd change the spring, too!

[normsutton]

as much as I'd like to sell him a spring , don't think that's the problem, these surplus guns , need to be cleaned and cleaned again , to get all the cosmoline out of them, and in certain cases ,they have lacquer build in the chambers from shooting steel cased ammo in them, also I don't know enough about the lead bullet he using in his gun, what's the dia. and how far is the bullet set in the case, of are the cases trimmed to proper length, its clear to that gun is not going into full battery on the first round the recoil is driven the second round into battery so it fires, or maybe he is riding the slide but i don't think so

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2593

NORM

[ar10ar15man]

as much as I'd like to sell him a spring , don't think that's the problem, these surplus guns , need to be cleaned and cleaned again , to get all the cosmoline out of them, and in certain cases ,they have lacquer build in the chambers from shooting steel cased ammo in them, also I don't know enough about the lead bullet he using in his gun, what's the dia. and how far is the bullet set in the case, of are the cases trimmed to proper length, its clear to that gun is not going into full battery on the first round the recoil is driven the second round into battery so it fires, or maybe he is riding the slide but i don't think so

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2593

NORM

very good with cast boolits( as we call them)
it is in battary...it is clean
not an issue with the ammo as once it fires i can fire them all.
the bar does not move completely as described above.

like i said one more range trip now that i know what to look for.

will take both guns with me( i traded one off this week for a cz70)

mike in co