keyholes from FMJ Brown Bear ammo

macclak · Post by **macclak** » December 21st, 2009, 6:17 pm

Went to the range last week and was surprised that all of my Brown Bear FMJ bullets were key-holed. Have any readers out there experienced this? The range weapons guru thought maybe Brown Bear was crimping their bullets too tight. I tried two other brands and they made nice round holes. I had a little M-16 bullet tumble going on...wohoo! Could I have stumbled on the most dangerous little CCW ever? This is my off-duty gun and we are supposed to carry hollow points...however if I can make them tumble....Hmmmmmmm:)

mirother · Post by **mirother** » December 21st, 2009, 10:54 pm

Macclak,
You did not happen to be shooting a CZ 82? If so, it could be the rifling style. I have had keyholes on occasion with mine.

jebib3 · Post by **jebib3** » December 22nd, 2009, 11:09 am

If keyholes mean that there are two parallel tears across the hole in the center, I experienced exactly the same thing the first time I used fmj brown bear ammo last saturday.

macclak · Post by **macclak** » December 22nd, 2009, 12:22 pm

No, I was shooting a Polish P64

macclak · Post by **macclak** » December 22nd, 2009, 12:24 pm

Instead of making round holes, the bullet hits sideways making a rectagonal, square entry mark.

coastal240 · Post by **coastal240** » December 22nd, 2009, 3:55 pm

On another website forum there was a poster that stated JHP ammo in 9x18 isn't necessary considerng that penetration is most important due to the sub-sonic velocity and that the 9x18 round tumbles on impact. If tumbling is a reality then this is one devestating round!

Tom

gunneyrabbit · Post by **gunneyrabbit** » January 1st, 2010, 2:09 pm

Brown Bear ammunition tumbles out of my pistol also, try shooting Silver Bear ammo and you'll get the results your looking for.
G.R.

mattrosswalker · Post by **mattrosswalker** » January 7th, 2010, 1:11 am

Is silver bear ammo a 94gr bullet? It looks like it is but I've never seen a 94gr 9X18. These have good results?

One mentioned a danger from tumbling bullet? Is this a danger to the shooter...or the person being shot? I've never come across anything like that before...I'm relatively new to the P64.

brock123 · Post by **brock123** » January 14th, 2010, 7:32 pm

Person being shot. macclak mentioned the M16 as an example. One reason the M16 originally did so much damage was because the rifling wasn't sufficient to stabilize the bullet. The bullet would start to tumble. You lose accuracy and some velocity but if you hit what you are pointing at the wounds would be much more devastating then a bullet that wasn't tumble. Or so I am told

coastal240 · Post by **coastal240** » January 14th, 2010, 8:41 pm

I believe that the round in the M16 and the AK-47 didn't tumble 'in the air" but did on impact. Apparently the rounds were designed to be 'light" at the tip which meant that if the round hit it's target at anything other than absolutely and perfectly straight on, the butt end of the round would want to pass the tip due to this is where most of the mass, or energy, was, thus tumbling.

Kind of makes sence to me and I believe I read that right but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Didn't the M16 designer get chastised for this? Internationally, the military isn't "allowed" to use hollow-point or fragmenting rounds on personnel due to field medics need for repairable wounds and this "tumbling" was ripping and shredding like HP or fragmenting rounds. I've also read that the AK-47 people didn't give a rats behind and didn't listen to the complainers stating they were full metal jacket, period.

If the 9x18 does tumble... nice! How do we verify this???

Tom

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