P64 vs modern CCW

envy · Post by **envy** » November 29th, 2009, 9:37 am

Hello all!! I know that a # of us carry the P64 in some form or another, What I am after is honest feedback from those who carry IWB with the P64 as well as modern compact and subcompacts.

As much loved and revered as the Walter style and size was and still is, given all the modern offerings for roughly the same or a little more defensive capability's.
What CCW's have you researched or have personal experience with?

Give an honest feedback. I know I tend to bias towards those brands that have seen long term reliable service with the military and personally I posses little experience with firearms.

What I do is research and analyze, for me and others like you're selves @ the time the P64 was maybe not the perfect choice but it fit the criteria.

Personally I think if I had to carry a modern CCW in direct competition with P64 it would be the Ruger LCP 380.

Thank You All For You're Time And Feedback

Post by **dfunk** » November 29th, 2009, 10:58 am

Well, it kind if sounds like you're looking for a comparison with the LCP, and I can't give you that as I don't own nor have I shot one. I can tell you that the P64 has a few characteristics that make it a winner over pistols in or around the same caliber. The P64 simply can't be touched as far as accuracy is concerned. Yes, the sights are small, but what it may lack in quick sight acquisition, it more than makes up for in it's pointable accuracy. It's weight is a plus for me - I like heavy guns.

Welcome to the forum!

coastal240 · Post by **coastal240** » November 29th, 2009, 11:15 am

ENVY,

I like the question you pose. Today's modern pistols seem to be designed out of a block of wood and tend to be overly, and unnecessarily, bulky. My preference is the PA-63 with the ClipDraw for weight and comfort.

Tom

gunneyrabbit · Post by **gunneyrabbit** » December 2nd, 2009, 1:59 am

The Kel-Tec P3AT/Ruger LCP are very desirable items when weather mandates, but they pale when compared to the accuracy, speed and power of the P64 or any other 9x18 SA pistole's. Modern 9x18 ammo easily match's the 38Sp. and some 38+P ammo for power. Long term reliability is yet to be seen with the modern molded frame small pistole's. When there are statistics on forty plus year old plastic 380's that will be the time to make comparisons, right know we are comparing apples to oranges.
G.R.

stover · Post by **stover** » December 2nd, 2009, 4:25 am

First off, I consider the P-64 to be a modern design. Other than materials used, designs haven't changed much since; Browning, Mauser, Maxim, Colt, Walther ...etc.
I own / have owned and/or carried the following (that I can remember): 3" & 5" 1911s (Kimber, para & Others) , Kahr K9, P9 & PM9, Glock G19, G30 & G36, Walther P99, Sig p245, S&W 442 / 642, Taurus Titanium 38, stainless 44 mag, PT 22, a Ruger sp 101, Makarovs, a Tokarev M57, CZ 75 & 82, P-64, and Kel-Tec P-11, P32 & P3AT.
The P-64 is still in my carry rotation for some of the following reasons, I prefer: steel over plastic, 9x18 over .380, 4" barrel over a shorter one (standard .38 out of a 1 7/8" barrel is pretty weak for example) , a heel mag release on a pocket auto, a flat profile, accurate and natural pointers. I also just like blued surplus guns especially east block arms. They are robust, simple, I trust them to work instinctively and I think there is some nostalgic attractions because I grew up during the cold war.
I still carry a 3AT too, but mainly because it is just so small, light and easy to conceal. I honestly don't care for most other aspects of the gun. It conceals like no other and it is accurate and reliable enough.

stover · Post by **stover** » December 2nd, 2009, 4:32 am

Oh forgot to mention, Welcome!

envy · Post by **envy** » December 2nd, 2009, 3:20 pm

I appreciate the input all of you as I suspected the results from you're input coincided with what research I had done.

And YES I hate the modern blockOwood look that seems to be so prevolent with todays gun designers.
The small Walter PPK body style was one of the major sell points for me about the P-64 and it packs more punch than the traditionall 380 round.

Never let the views of the few to infringe on the constitutional rights of the many

anjdrifter · Post by **anjdrifter** » December 3rd, 2009, 7:29 am

I too think of the P64 as a modern weapon,with the advantage of having a tried and true design.Another consideration that makes it desirable is that it was a military weapon thus it had to pass a battery of testing and field trails before being adopted into service.Alot of the modern commercial pistols of the day can skip this part of production. I always think what the cost would be of a P64 if it was a new gun and what the cost would be to purchase it now off the shelve.

envy · Post by **envy** » December 3rd, 2009, 10:06 am

A modernized version would be nice and probably about $400.00 or so USD.
Nitron finish, CZ 82 grooveless bore, make it available in all 9mm versions depending on market, a shorter and easier pull in DA mode, lighter wheight by utilizing modern metalurgicall technology and decreased dimensions, wide selection of mags like Glock, slightly shorter barell with hi vis sights, and bottom provisions for a rail so acceseries can be added.

Good Night and Good Luck

stover · Post by **stover** » December 3rd, 2009, 12:49 pm

Price / feature difference between a the CZ model 82 and 83 should give an ideal what a modern production would look like.
Or the Bersa product line.

envy · Post by **envy** » December 4th, 2009, 11:11 am

I disagree, I think it would probably be the CZ 2075 BD Rami the Bersa 9 ultra compact is a very close second but I think just to damn chunky those two would be the closest thing to a modern version of the P-64.
Me I would get the CZ if I have the $ if i,m on a budget I would not hesitate though to get the Bersa I have NO reservations about thier quality or reputation either.

I handled a CZ 83 a couple weeks ago and it felt like a clunky ole heavy beast compared to my P-64. To be quite franke I think as the prices continue to climb on the old Soviet block weapons and parts become harder to come by as indearing as they may be, I think it more advantagious to spend the extra $ and buy thier modern day brethern.
That being said I will purchase another P-64 if nothing more than just to have another one.

Oddly enough I think this write up has answered two different ?s at least for me, but mainly what would be the modern day version of the P-64 and last a modern smaller Sub Compact answere to the P-64 a CZ a Bersa and a Ruger not bad guys not bad at all !!!!!!

Good Night And Good Luck

stover · Post by **stover** » December 4th, 2009, 3:39 pm

There is no shortage of these guns in the world. It is our import rules that keep stocks low in the US.
In my last post I was thinking more of business philosophy than design.
Bersa builds and export their guns to the US and they are quality but inexpensive arms.
CZ took the same approach and their prices have been rising as their reputation builds. But still inexpensive and well made arms.
The Croatian's started with this approach and then switched to importing via Springfield. You could buy a HS 2000 for less than $200. Now that we call them the XD they are close to $500.00.
If Radom built the P64 in a current production civilian model, they could get them into the US and they would sell, just for quite a bit more than the do now. I do not know Bersa's history but I assume they started with a few PPKish clones and then developed their locked breech offerings and other products. Surplus military arms seem to have the biggest import issues.
I worked and lived in the UK last year and you could buy a new production Baikal Makarov any where. Same frame but now a CO2 pellet gun. I couldn't bring one back to the US though.

kurremkarm · Post by **kurremkarm** » December 12th, 2009, 7:21 am

I have held one of these guns at a gun show and put it in my waist band. I carry a smith 442 airweight which does pretty good for pocket carry in shorts but is a bit thick for iwb even with a clipdraw. I also carry an naa buntline .22 which is very very concealable but it is single action and a .22.

I tend to carry the .38 in a don hume jit slide holster strongside and the buntline in a pockect holster. I just got my permit this year and I'm learning that CC is all about preference. I think you should love the gun you carry and I think these things just look cool.

Closest gun to this one I have owned was an smc-380 I bought for 100 bucks off some random guy once. It shot really well, wish I still had it, like every other nice gun that has come my way.

The number one thing for me is the gun most go bang everytime. I have been thinking that I want to be able to shoot a gun with better accuracy at range, more shots, and easier to reload than my .38 that fits iwb better. And yes i will use clipdraw. The fact this thing has a really heavy double trigger is even better, imo, for safety.

wrothgar · Post by **wrothgar** » December 12th, 2009, 8:52 am

What kind of holster do you guys use for the P64? I don't want just a little cheap Uncle Mike's (although there's nothing wrong with them). I'm thinking Crossbreed, Desantis, or some other leather-type holster, preferably IWB. Any ideas?

anjdrifter · Post by **anjdrifter** » December 12th, 2009, 9:03 am

look no further then your and click here
viewtopic.php?t=2257

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