Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigger!

[tai]

Sorry, but I can not answer your question.

Normally I would take off the grips but I have a Hogue Handall Jr. installed over them and that was a bit of a process in itself. Rather not have to remove that Hogue sleeve and do the hot water /Windex routine all over again and risk splitting the rubber on that sleeve further.

I guess mine is different, otherwise you wouldn't have shown me your last posted photograph.

Would appreciate it if people would chime in and, after clearing the weapon, dry-fire it and let me know if hammer goes forward against spring pressure after doing so. Mine does (about 1/8", and then 'bounces' back), and then the very slightest back pressure on the spur locks it from going forward ('guessing' that is tooth arrester engaging). Please let me know if mine is similar to yours, participants in this thread!

Feel reasonably confident my P-64 is working as it should. Passed all 'pencil tests' and did the 'drop hammer' test over a chambered round 30x and no ignition. That indicates to me the 'hammer drop catch' characteristics of my firearm (tooth arrester engaging) work. It may or may not be 'tenuous' but 30x and no ignition is reassuring. YMMV, and it may or may not be dependent upon your hammer spring.

[losingle]

Recommend Tuff1 vs hogue, fits like a glove and easier to remove. My testing same results.

[tai]

I will look into those. What model/grip design do you have?

[tai]

Would appreciate it if people would chime in and, after clearing the weapon and making it safe, dry-fire it- and after doing so let me know if hammer goes forward against spring pressure.

Mine does (about 1/8", and then 'bounces' back), and then the very slightest back pressure on the spur locks it from going forward ('guessing' that is tooth arrester engaging).

Please let me know if yours is similar to mine, participants in this thread!

[lincen]

I have a 1974 P64 with the triangular hammer. The hammer can only touch the firing pin when the trigger is all the way back. When you slowly release the trigger the first of two clicks will stop the forward movement of the hammer. Also the hammer does not have that half cock notch. I know there were some changes between the two models dealing with the hammer and trigger.

[tai]

When I decock the hammer in mine (1969 P-64) as if it were a revolver, while simultaneously letting off on the trigger a bit, and then let the hammer come to rest before releasing the rest of the trigger, and then let trigger fully and slowly release, I too hear and also feel those two clicks.

The hammer in mine rests in that quarter-cock position and will not go forward any more-there is no spring pressure and hammer is blocked from advancing further.

[Curly1]

the p64 has a "rebounding hammer"

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3147&start=15

[tai]

Not quite sure if I understand a 'rebounding hammer'.

When I use the decocker and then leave safety ON there is forward spring pressure when I advance the hammer with my thumb, and seems to stop and be blocked at its most forward position, then bounces back. When I take the safety OFF, there is even more spring pressure but I don't feel it hits a 'stop' as when the safety is ON.

Is that the function of the 'rebounding hammer'?

Is it not possible for the hammer with a swift and hard blow to overcome that spring pressure and ignite the primer with safety OFF? with safety ON?

I did read the thread cited by Curly above and searched further and found this short thread:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthr ... ?p=1747133

Post #2, if accurate, helped somewhat.

As a southpaw, I'd much prefer to carry gun with safety OFF. But there is no automatic fiing pin safety, apparently. But there is that 'tooth arrester' on the bottom of the hammer that apparently stops forward movement to strike the firing pin.

I am confused about this firearm, and if I were right-handed would freely feel confident to carry it with safety ON. But I am left-handed and would really like to feel confident carrying it with safety OFF.

I just did the pencil test again. This time I just advanced the hammer (while it was down) with my thumb against its spring pressure with the safety OFF and then with the safety ON.

With safety OFF, it did affect the pencil, as if the firing pin came into contact with it, but it only moved it slightly. Not so with safety ON, it did not move it an iota.

And as I reported earlier, cocking hammer back just shy of cocked and letting go had no effect on the pencil and did not ignite a chambered round for the 30 or so times I tried it. My hand was off the trigger at all times. The arrester was doing its job, apparently.

Perhaps it IS safe to carry with safety OFF, but not as safe as when it's ON. I still don't know what to think about it and not just going to accept that it must be carried with safety ON. But I've 'waffled' on this before in this thread.

Back to the old question: Is the P-64 drop-safe with safety OFF?

I'm going to define drop-safe as zero possibility of a discharge if hammer hits concrete squarely from 1 meter and, also, muzzle squarely hits concrete from 1 meter.

Since no one has scientifically tested the above, I'd be curious as to reasoned opinions (without relying on them) why you feel it is or is not drop-safe.

[tai]

Also, I have a separate inquiry:

Suppose a person carries the firearm with safety OFF.

Would it be safer, assuming the firearm is dropped to concrete, to just keep the hammer down and have all that forward spring pressure with the rebounding hammer- or to pull back just a smidgeon (in my firearm, at least) where the hammer is apparently engaged by the tooth arrester and is 'locked' in place, e.g. the hammer will not go forward with thumb from there?

[Curly1]

Rebounding hammers back off the hammer from the firing pin so it doesn't strike it if dropped.

I think handguns have to pass the California drop test in order to be sold in tha state if I am not mistaken.

Maybe a revolver would be a better option for carry for you.

[tai]

There are many reasons related to markets and economics, politics, cost, etc. why manufacturer's or distributors choose not to submit to get on the CA Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale. Of those who would want to be rostered, the most prominent disqualifier presently is a requirement of 'micro-stamping', in addition to a magazine safety and prominent LCI.

Non-rostered handguns can not be sold New in the State of California directly by a FFL, but most non-rostered handguns can be sold as used or even new guns with a face-to-face private party transfer that takes place at an FFL premises. In that case, the FFL is not a party to the transaction-they merely facilitate it. That is how I got my P-64.

There is also an exemption called a SSE (single-shot exemption) that can be utilized to sell a non-rostered gun new by a FFL.

Thank you for your input, Curly.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that guns may qualify for roster status but do not necessarily apply for it.

[Hastings]

I tested all my 9x18's. Empty brown bear steel case in the chamber no mag. Safety/decocker off (red showing) hammer pulled back 2/3 of the way and released.
Makarov PM did not discharge.
PA 63 did not discharge.
P 64 discharged.
VZ 82 did not discharge.
P 83 discharged.
Primer indents on both were substantial, not full hammer strikes but obviously enough.
Scares me, I've carried both of those a lot fully loaded hammer down safety off.

[tai]

Did you test with primed empty cases, Hastings?

In light of your testing, I think you made it clear as to your P-64 that you would be concerned if hammer spur snagged and came back shy of fully cocked with safety OFF.

Do you feel the same way if your P-64 is dropped with hammer down, safety OFF?

If so, why?

If not, why not?

Thanks and welcome to the forum!

[losingle]

What year mfg. is your p-64?

[Hastings]

Thanks for the welcome I've been lurking around here for a year and figured it was about time I contributed something.Has as been stated all these pistols have rebounding hammers and at rest (hammer down) safety off you can't just push the hammer all the way forward, but what my bench testing is telling me is that if the hammer is pulled back and released with 2/3 of a swing momentum carries it past that point and then it comes back to rest (rebounds). At least on the two Polish models. Dropping it on it's muzzle would not have that extra 2/3 swing of inertia so I don't know.I ain't gonna drop mine to find out. I know I won't carry em safety off no more. Glad the Original poster is OK and humble enough to tell on himself. Probably saved one of us a hole in the leg.