Gun won't fire in DA

[fiver]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but please bear with me.

If my P64 is empty and I rack the slide back (mag out of course) then decock it, it will fire under normal DA all day long. snap snap snap No problem with the standard stiff yet crisp shooting.

If I load the pistol up, rack it, and decock it, the trigger just hangs dead. Not stiff or anything, just totally like a limp noodle. Now, it's been awhile since I messed with it, but I believe that the trigger still hangs dead in SA

If I load the weapon, pull back the slide and fire without decocking, it's an awesome little shooter and flawless with ball ammo. Right now, thought, it's acting like a SAO pistol without a lock. The only modifications I have done to it is a stouter recoil spring and lighter recoil spring, but it acted the same way before I modded it.

Any idea what might be up with my decocker and what I can do to fix it? I love this little gun, and I would carry it more if I could carry it and fire it in DA.

Thanks so much for your help!

[normsutton]

fiver

have you cleaned the pistol , if not clean it


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2593


NORM

[papabear]

Welcome aboard, glad to have ya with us.

+1 with Norm, these pistols are surplus pistols and were stored for years and full of cosmosline and such, plus some now showing up are rearsenaled and reassembled, some may have burr's on parts, and some have been owner worked on and then traded in or sold so it could be a lot of things, but breaking it down and cleaning is the first step.

I have had five and all worked fine, I still have a '72 and carry it a lot, never had to change anything out on any of them except the grips, I hate the thumb rest that many of them had back in the day, but then I got mine years ago. Good luck your new purchase.

Papa

[LynnKCircle]

I discovered the very same problem when I went to the range today. Just to ensure it is the ammunition and not the magazine, I put in an empty magazine. The DA trigger worked fine. When I put in a snap cap in the magazine and racked the slide (a 9x19 which I cut the nose off of and then filled in with hot glue), it still worked fine. But when I put in a live round, the trigger acts as if it has been disconnected. Obviously, the rim of the cartridge must be pushing on something which disconnects the trigger. Moreover, I do not know if it were always like this or I caused it when I replaced the mainspring.

Any ideas?

[normsutton]

LynnKCircle

when loading an auto loader always load from the mag , don't drop a bullet in the chamber, , with that said , you could have a build up of varnish in the chamber, it is certain the gun is not going into full batter , take some acetone and scrub the chamber out

NORM

[LynnKCircle]

Norm, thank you, but I don't think that's it. I always load from a magazine, even with snap caps. I also fired a couple of times SA while watching the slide rather than the target. There wasn't any excessive smoke or unburned powder coming out of the chamber, which I would have expected if it weren't fully in battery. The difference between my snap cap and ammunition is that the snap cap goes further into the chamber than regular ammo, and the ejector cannot grasp it. So, I figure that little bit of difference must be pressing on part of the internal trigger mechanism.

Besides, isn't any modern autoloader going to fail to fire if it is not fully in battery? (by that, I mean made after 1970)

[normsutton]

if it dosen't go in to full battery it will not fire, the P-64 is built like that

NORM

[LynnKCircle]

NORM IS RIGHT! And he was right in the first place! The problem is the replacement recoil spring. I should have known from the fact that with the heavier recoil spring, removing and replacing the slide is a bear. In fact, if I were even a little whit weaker, I wouldn't be able to do it. If you are having this problem yourself, try this (after ensuring the gun is unloaded with no round in the chamber. Otherwise, you will end up with a hole in your hand). Push the barrel just a fraction of an inch in. The gun is actually still in battery, and a round would be fully covered, so there will not be any escaping gases or deformed cases. But the DA disconnect has been pushed, and the gun will not fire in DA. Hold the slide pushed down precisely the same amount, and it WILL fire in SA.

OK, now that I know the problem and its cause, I can relax with it. Look, even with the replacement hammer spring, the DA is still a b'witch, and I doubt I could hit anything other than a two-foot square at six feet in DA. So, when I draw, I'll just have to cock like I do with my SA .22mag NAA Black Widow. But I won't have to worry about SA reliability now that I know the cause. Since I like the way the gun shoots with the heavier recoil spring, I'll keep in it. (and flings the empties 20 feet away, to the discomfort of those to my right!).

NORM, YOU DA MAN!

[juniustaylor]

LynnKCircle, you're one of those people... Ugh! Ha-ha.
and flings the empties 20 feet away, to the discomfort of those to my right!

I was at this one indoor range here in Wichita and some guy had a .45 Auto and his cases were flying over the divider onto my side hitting me on the head and such. I got thoroughly annoyed by it, so I pulled out my .44 blackpowder revolver and unloaded 6 rounds. Needless to say, I fogged up the area pretty good and I felt good about it.

Seriously though, glad you got your problem solved. Hopefully it keeps functioning well for you. It's strange how finicky some of these guns are. Lots of folks use the heaviest recoil spring with no problems but others experience problems. Oh well, it's always nice to figure out the problem so it doesn't nag you... even in your sleep.

[PA-Joe]

LynnKCircle

If you just installed one of the Wolf Recoil Springs you have to remove it and grind down the two ends so they are flat and look like your original recoil spring. Without doing this it is hard to get the slide on and off. It also raises the spring so that it binds or rubs on the slide. I just did this per someones recommendations and now the slide can be removed freely and teh spring sits flatter. This will also help the slide go into full battery. Aa you do this you can see how flattening the ends helps line up the spring and allows the coils of the sring to contact more of the frame and barrel end.

[LynnKCircle]

Thank you! I will try that tomorrow.

[LynnKCircle]

Well, I spent about an hour with a flat metal file and the spring. The good news is that the slide now goes on and off with no more difficulty than any other weapon of this type, and that IS a relief. But the sucker still won't engage the trigger DA. More filing is indicated, I suppose ..

[LynnKCircle]

P.S. to the above post. I put back the original recoil spring. The problem remains. So that has to mean the slide is pushing down the disconnect on the right side of the frame. My disconnect has very little resistance; in fact, friction seems to be all that is holding it up. Does this mean I did something wrong when replacing the mainspring? If so, can it be fixed?

[juniustaylor]

I think it seems strange you are even having this problem. My slide has to come back about 1/16" or so before it will even disconnect. If the end of the slide is flush with your muzzle, then you should not be having this problem. I think something is weak in your disconnector causing it to not "spring" up as it should. I'd take the grips off and give everything a good look over. Operate the disconnector by hand and start there. Go to every other linkage that ties into the disconnector. Changing the hammer spring shouldn't have caused any problems.

[waltham41]

The disconector was kind of iffy on mine when I first got it, making it not function in DA...... I took and sprayed the area down with WD40 and sit there and pushed it up and down a couple of hundred times manually. My pistol has worked perfect since.