Hammer-drop/double-action problem

[alden]

Guys;
So I picked up my P-64 last week... When I drop the hammer via moving the selector to "safe" the trigger disengages. OK ONLY when actually loaded, when I switch the safety back to fire it doesn't re-engage the trigger to operate double action. Works fine unloaded. Anyone have an idea why it would do that?!

Alden

[normsutton]

alden

here is a discussion on this


http://p64.proboards67.com/index.cgi?bo ... hread=2178


NORM

[alden]

Norm;
Thanks. I literally just joined and must've seem deaconblues post while you were sending it to me -- lol. Thanks.

Seems there is a recurring issue with the P-64 here in this regard. What I still don't get is why this failure only when the gun is LOADED...

Alden

[normsutton]

Alden

by the way WELCOME

are you loading one the tub and then the mag or loading from the mag

NORM

[alden]

Norm;
"...one the tub"? Not sure if that means dropping one into the chamber and then inserting a full mag, but no. I load from a mag and then remove and top off the mag again. I can't remember the last time I mighta fed the chamber of any but a shotgun and some big military rifles, well, a long time ago...
Regards
Alden

[normsutton]

alden


you are loading it right then

I suspect that the gun has never been properly cleaned, 99.5% problems with the P-64 can be resolved by a good cleaning, take the grips and slide off , and soak it in paint thinner , kerosene . or diesel fuel over night
or you can put it in a pan of water with some dish soap and boil it . then re oil it
( or you may have to take gun completely apart)

Disassembly/Reassembly + Parts List http://p64.proboards67.com/index.cgi?bo ... hread=1537

I have 4 of these guns , the only thing I have done to them is clean when I first got them ( witch I do to all guns new and used ) ,change the trigger return spring in two of them because they broke, change the hammer , recoil , and firing pin springs , did polish the feed ramp, never ground on anything and they all work perfect


NORM

[alden]

Norm;
Thanks for all the great data and info. I soaked the gun to no avail. I do note that the disconnector really leaves little room for the trigger bar to re-engage so it MAY be that the trigger bar is not quite rising enough to engage the sear ( I suppose it is) once the safety is disengaged. These are really tight tolerances. However...

...I think it more likely that the trigger bar is not traveling far enough rearward to engage the sear once the safety is disengaged and drops the hammer. But I won't cycle the gun loaded with one in the chamber, which is the ONLY time this happens for some reason still noone has guessed at, at home w/the grips off to see what's actually happening. As I've seen wear on the trigger bar just from cycling the slide I am just gonna see what happens at the range w/the grips off, loadede, very carefully, and then fire this nice thing finally in the next month and see if that doesn't naturally fit the problem away...

Alden

[normsutton]

Alden

not trying to sell you a trigger return spring , but, it maybe weak or maybe it came off the trigger bar
go here http://p64.proboards67.com/index.cgi?bo ... hread=1822

NORM

[alden]

Norm;
Thanks. I appreciate resourceful people and products. I may take you up on that depending on the outcome of a little shooting and when I change out the hammer spring and IF I can find my damned replacement RECOIL spring -- I KNOW I bought one MONTHS before I was able to pick up the gun!

On a similar note, does anybody generally have spare parts such as that disconnector, etc., should we need them?!

Alden

[normsutton]

alden

here is where you can get parts

http://www.tnguns.com/shop/index.php?ma ... b9e917bad3

NORM

[alden]

Norm, et al;
I sorta see why my gun's double action doesn't seem to engage when loaded at ALL...

I couldn't figure out/see what being LOADED had to do with anything and then looked especially closely at the slide in battery again. Not surprisingly, the slide sits back on the frame a fraction of an inch further when a cartridge is in the chamber vs. when it is unloaded. Sure enough, even unloaded, when I duplicate this slide position manually the double action is disconnected. Why? Because the slide sitting back even about 1/100" on the frame pushes down the trigger bar via the disconnector.

This is trouble for two reasons. One is obvious: double action doesn't work. The other is that the disconnector, which is already impinging the slide, seems to already be contacting the trigger bar that, in turn, engages with the underside of the hammer. This connection could be so tenuous that the tight tolerances could give way if some room is not made.

Solution... The best way I see to fix this is NOT to file anything away. I think it best to remove the disconnector, put it in a vice, and tap down the offset part that engages the Trigger bar by at least 1/32" at first, maybe 1/16" eventually, with a small brass hammer. This effectively shortens the disconnector. If I over-do-it somehow I can always bend it back another fraction of an inch. The alternative is to file the bottom of this offset part, or, the top and angled face of the disconnector where it constantly engages the slide. In any case, the disconnector seems too long.

Whadya think?!

Alden

PS: Putting my first 72 rounds thru it and my 5 mags had no effect on the double action whilst the recoil and even the accuracy were better than I expected...

[davebaird]

I am new to the P-64 but have been shooting surplus weapons for over 12 years. If your pistol does that all the time, your solution might be worth a try. But, mine does that very rarely and I attribute it to a yet-soiled chamber. Any other semi-auto that has happened with, the solution is to use the back of the hand to swack the rear of the slide forward into battery while shooting. Once home, scrub out the chamber! It is also a somewhat good sign that headspacing is NOT a problem!

Good luck and let us know how it goes! TY Dave

[3rdpig]

The first P-64 I bought did this as well as one a friend bought just recently. After a good cleaning if it still does it file a little off the sharp corner of the disconnector on the bottom, where it contacts the trigger bar. It doesn't take much, just take off the sharp point on the corner that contacts. I've done this on mine and my friends and it worked perfectly and affected nothing else about the gun's functionality. In fact, the one I own that I did it on I later converted to DAO fire, and it's so reliable and easy to shoot that it's my favorite pocket pistol.

[davebaird]

Hi friends! Well, it seems I have a DA/SA problem too, but not the same as others have described above. I am pretty sure it happened on occasion before I put Norm's new trigger spring in, so I don't believe that is the problem, but don't know. Here's what happens every time with a clean gun, different ammo and either mag:
1. Fill the mag and tap the spine to properly seat the cartridges.
2. Insert filled (6) mag and rack the slide with safety OFF.
3. Apply safety to drop the hammer and cushion it with thumb.
4. Pull trigger and fire gun in DA.
5. Gun resets in SA.
6. Pull trigger and fire gun in SA.
7. GUN RESETS IN DA (HAMMER DOWN) No slam fire.
8. Pull trigger and fire gun in DA.
9. Gun now resets in SA and remains so for remainder of mag.

This happens in this sequence with every single mag and different ammo. The third shot is DA but should be SA!

Am I doing anything wrong? I don't think it is a sear/hammer problem because when the hammer resets in DA it does not slam fire (go full auto). I think it is a trigger/trigger bar problem???? ::)

Help? Dave