FFL
FFL
It's a difficult row to hoe. A firearms dealer requires knowledge of a wide berth of products, intense record-keeping, and developing a known reputation in a community. It requires really secure storage and property. Even selling on Gunbroker.com only might be possible for a novice with some savvy, but, the profit margin on most gunsales is very small. To satisfy the ATF of your viablility, a certain volume of sales is required. My FFL says that it takes about 50 sales per month to make a decent living. You start selling and soon find out that 30 or 40 other guys are selling models at below your cost! You wonder, "How can they do that!!?" and say, "Gee, honey I'll never be able to sell these guns at the price I have to have!" They have contacts in the industry and do volume sales and get special deals from the distributors and manufacturers that you don't have a prayer of getting. Then, there's shipping, which requires packing and boxes, and trips to the carriers depots or the post office. That requires paperwork for each gun, the FFL at it's destination and secure transportation to and from.
Next, comes dealing with non-payers and product returns. On the auctions, you deal with people miles away. It can cost a fortune to look them up over a $12.00 profit that turned into a $60.00 loss.
I tell you truthfully, you can make many, many times more money mowing and trimming out of the back of a pick-up! Many times more! And you won't have the prospect of the BATFE showing up unexpected and catching you without a proper entry in your bound book on a gun that somebody just died by.
bZ.
Next, comes dealing with non-payers and product returns. On the auctions, you deal with people miles away. It can cost a fortune to look them up over a $12.00 profit that turned into a $60.00 loss.
I tell you truthfully, you can make many, many times more money mowing and trimming out of the back of a pick-up! Many times more! And you won't have the prospect of the BATFE showing up unexpected and catching you without a proper entry in your bound book on a gun that somebody just died by.
bZ.
Last edited by bzinggg on October 17th, 2007, 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FFL
You can't do that. Federal Firearms Licenses are for people who are in the BUSINESS of selling firearms for a profit. You can get a Curio and Relic Firerarms license for the collecting of certain listed firearms, but it is not issued for people trying to make money selling firearms. It will not work.
The C&R license makes it possible for you to receive certain qualified firearms into your possession without having to transfer them through an FFL holder, and allows you to make such qualified purchases out of state and have them shipped direrctly to you. It does not grant the ability to buy and sell C&R firearms or any other type of firearms as a profit-making business, or to purchase firearms for face-to-face sales to your buddies or others. You will go to prison.
Add edit: That is not to say that you are forbidden to sell a C&R gun for more than you may have paid for it. It is also not meant to say that you can make no face-to-sales. But, the motive must be to improve your collection, not to make "straw purchases" for your buddies, relatives or others that wish to avoid having to transfer a firearm through a dealer who holds a legitimate Federal Firerarms License who will call in for a national crime database background check on the firearm and the buyer.
You can buy and sell firearms as a private citizen. For instance, I have several military surplus rifles and pistols and some regular modern firearms for hunting and personal protectiion. I recently bought two more P-64s because I am particularly fond of them and like to collect them. When I saw them come up for sale, on an impulse, I bought them, hoping they might be even more pristine than the four wonderful P-64s I already owned. They were not, my insurance is coming due, my wife is frowning and I have to sell them. I will undoubtedly take a small loss and it may take me a while to sell them, but it is legal for me to do so, as long as I act according to ATF regs and the auction rules for individuals selling personal firearms on an internet auction, or to someone who is a citizen in my own state.
The C&R license makes it possible for you to receive certain qualified firearms into your possession without having to transfer them through an FFL holder, and allows you to make such qualified purchases out of state and have them shipped direrctly to you. It does not grant the ability to buy and sell C&R firearms or any other type of firearms as a profit-making business, or to purchase firearms for face-to-face sales to your buddies or others. You will go to prison.
Add edit: That is not to say that you are forbidden to sell a C&R gun for more than you may have paid for it. It is also not meant to say that you can make no face-to-sales. But, the motive must be to improve your collection, not to make "straw purchases" for your buddies, relatives or others that wish to avoid having to transfer a firearm through a dealer who holds a legitimate Federal Firerarms License who will call in for a national crime database background check on the firearm and the buyer.
You can buy and sell firearms as a private citizen. For instance, I have several military surplus rifles and pistols and some regular modern firearms for hunting and personal protectiion. I recently bought two more P-64s because I am particularly fond of them and like to collect them. When I saw them come up for sale, on an impulse, I bought them, hoping they might be even more pristine than the four wonderful P-64s I already owned. They were not, my insurance is coming due, my wife is frowning and I have to sell them. I will undoubtedly take a small loss and it may take me a while to sell them, but it is legal for me to do so, as long as I act according to ATF regs and the auction rules for individuals selling personal firearms on an internet auction, or to someone who is a citizen in my own state.
Last edited by bzinggg on October 17th, 2007, 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FFL
Hit the ATF website and do some research. If Mass an FFL needs to have a state license and have a retail store to sell firearms and ammo. Years ago many small FFLs had their state licenses pulled as they had a shop above their garage and the state would not allow it any longer and created great difficulty and many lawsuits...making it not worth fighting to even try to keep and operate with an FFL in Mass anymore.
It would be nice if you could be an "auction" FFL and just charge people $20 to facilitate their transfers but I don't think the volume would allow you to stay in business very long considering the paperwork etc required.
It would be nice if you could be an "auction" FFL and just charge people $20 to facilitate their transfers but I don't think the volume would allow you to stay in business very long considering the paperwork etc required.
FFL
When I make a face-to-face sale of a firearm, of which I have made only two, I always look at the persons driver's license and the picture on it to make sure it is them to the best of my ability, and that they reside in my state, and then write the number down to later record it on my pc and in my paper files. Before we get that f far I ask them point blank, whether they are a friend or a stranger, "Do you know of any reason that it might be illegal for you to own this gun?", and then, "Do you intend to use this gun for any unlawful purpose?" When I am satisfied that they have truthfully answered "No" to both questions, I complete the sale, and sleep like a baby that night.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/index.htm
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/26thedition/
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/index.htm
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/26thedition/
Last edited by bzinggg on October 17th, 2007, 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FFL
Thanks guys first I greatly appreciate any experience you can pass my way. What I was origionally thinking was to have the ability to make a few extra bucks, and pick up items for cheaper prices, not to run a shop full time there are some websites that won't even let me see prices without an FFL. Knowing this the C&R might be more my speed. I have seen folke in here talk about SOG is that Southern Ohio Guns? They shut me out on the prices. Again thanks for the info.
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FFL
NORMSUTTON@AOL.COM
N.R.A. LIFE MEMBER 1976
N.R.A. LIFE MEMBER 1976
FFL
back in 1981 i got my ffl. the family was into pistol and rifle matches and at that time the only way to get powder/primers/bullets cheap was to have a ffl. then after 12 years i gave it back. the rules changed and it was hard to meet the new standards. they changed the standards/rules to shut down the guys like me, the little guy that did not have a true store and sold from the house. did i make any money??? no i did not, sold for around $10.00 over total cost of the gun. had the ffl to get a better price on reloading items. (wife and i were shooting 400 to 800 rounds each, every week for pratice and 200 rounds each, each week for matches) (i lived at the reloading bench during those days)
today you will have to spend big $$$$ to make the standards/rules.
today you will have to spend big $$$$ to make the standards/rules.
FFL
michaelap,
In KY you can be an FFL holder without a storefront. Might check with the ATF regardnig Ohio. I bought an XD40 from such an FFL yesterday.
(Also, the ATF charged my account the $30...C&R should be here soon!)
In KY you can be an FFL holder without a storefront. Might check with the ATF regardnig Ohio. I bought an XD40 from such an FFL yesterday.
(Also, the ATF charged my account the $30...C&R should be here soon!)