Buffalo Bore 9X18 Coming Soon

[fknipfer1]

I have fired Buffalo Bore ammo for sometime now. Buffalo Bore does testing before it sells in fact quite a bit of testing. I think several of you guys miss the point. You don't shoot Buffalo Bore as a plinking round you save it for carry only. I use Buffalo Bore in a 32acp P230, .380acp P230 and if they make the 9x18mm round I will buy it to put in my German Makarov or Polish P83. Both of the guns are all steel and in much better shape than some of the guns around that have frames made out of plastic and aluminum.

Sure they are expensive but for carry only and what is your life worth. I use S&B or Fiocchi for plinking and practice but I don't use them for carry. In fact I don't carry the Mak at all in CCW. The .380 ammo I use in the P230 is 100gr 1050fps and 295 lbs ft. That a 50% increase in hitting power over standard Mak rounds. The Mak will now match up to the P230 but not quite so I will put a stronger recoil spring in it when the ammo comes out. Buffalo Bore is rating their 9x18mak ammo at 95grs jhp @ 1125fps and 259 lbs ft of ME, and the 115gr Hard cast @ 1050fps and 255 lbs ft of ME. Thats not a whole lot above some of the European Rounds. The Buffalo Bore 115gr will be a hard cast with a FN and it out to be an awesome stopping round.

Anyway TMHO

fknipfer1

[dfunk]

Well, loading up a 115 gr 9x18 in a P64 is a very bad idea - it doesn't matter how often you shoot it, it may only take once to make a fancy paper weight. For obvious reasons, it's recommended to use standard pressure ammo in pistols that were designed around it. Modern firearms can handle elevated pressures, but milsurp guns simply weren't designed for it.

In my opinion, if you're not running more than a few mags of your carry ammo through your gun, you haven't tested your choice of ammo well enough. I know a lot of guys that have run 2 or 3 mags of expensive carry ammo without an issue and think that it's good to go - I just disagree and feel that you need to pony up the dough and do a serious test. Like you said, my life is worth more than a few boxes of pricey carry ammo.

[fknipfer1]

dfunk

We do not know what powder they are using for the loads. Hornady uses new powders for their levereloution rounds that give more umph with less pressure. That is in the leveraction rounds. If they ever come out with it what quantity do you think some one should shoot before he is ok to proceed as is. I have fired the .380 Buffalo Bore rounds thru my P230 Sig over four boxes of course they were only 105gr but they were nice. 290lb ft of ME and when I carry it I use them. Now for practice I use Wisconsin Cartridge or S&B. They don't seem to have anymore recoil than the 95gr rounds. There is on the market some Cor-bon rounds with about the same energy as the new Buffalo Bore rounds.

fknipfer1

[Foo Bird]

I have the extended barrel for the Makarov in .380 and plan to use BB or Cor-Bon (or both) as my carry ammo. I'm fairly secure in my abilities with the Mak and that of the caliber.
Thanks to new tech the .380 is no longer the weak sister it used to be.

[halljt3]

Well, loading up a 115 gr 9x18 in a P64 is a very bad idea - it doesn't matter how often you shoot it, it may only take once to make a fancy paper weight. For obvious reasons, it's recommended to use standard pressure ammo in pistols that were designed around it. Modern firearms can handle elevated pressures, but milsurp guns simply weren't designed for it.

In my opinion, if you're not running more than a few mags of your carry ammo through your gun, you haven't tested your choice of ammo well enough. I know a lot of guys that have run 2 or 3 mags of expensive carry ammo without an issue and think that it's good to go - I just disagree and feel that you need to pony up the dough and do a serious test. Like you said, my life is worth more than a few boxes of pricey carry ammo.

dfunk,
I noticed on their website they had 95gr in 9x18 I was just wondering what your opinions were on that? do you see any drawbacks on that particular bullet?

[juniustaylor]

95 grain is your standard bullet weight for the 9x18 (FMJ atleast)...

[fknipfer1]

I believe I will abandon this thread as this subject is like hitting your head on a brick wall. Open discussion on this matter seems to be verboten. So guys count me out.

fknipfer1

[normsutton]

Well, loading up a 115 gr 9x18 in a P64 is a very bad idea - it doesn't matter how often you shoot it, it may only take once to make a fancy paper weight. For obvious reasons, it's recommended to use standard pressure ammo in pistols that were designed around it. Modern firearms can handle elevated pressures, but milsurp guns simply weren't designed for it..

shoot what these guns were design to shoot these gun, there has not been a new Gun made in 30 or 40 years in 9 x 18 they are all military surplus , they were tested for the military round of the time, not an over loaded round, read the tag that should of been on your gun

In my opinion, if you're not running more than a few mags of your carry ammo through your gun, you haven't tested your choice of ammo well enough. I know a lot of guys that have run 2 or 3 mags of expensive carry ammo without an issue and think that it's good to go - I just disagree and feel that you need to pony up the dough and do a serious test. Like you said, my life is worth more than a few boxes of pricey carry ammo.

carry what you practice with so you hit what you are shooting at, not some innocent bystander

NORM

[dfunk]

halljt3, I'm not ammunition expert, but on that site, it says they're 95gr +P loads.

Open discussion on this matter seems to be verboten. So guys count me out.

Verboten? Really? How so? We can talk about it all we want - after all, it's just opinions.

Like I said, I'm not an ammo expert nor do I claim to be, but when you're talking about older guns that were designed around one type of ammo, I think it's potentially dangerous to introduce a higher pressured round. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always been told that unless the manufacturer of the gun has indicated that +P ammo is safe, then you probably shouldn't use it; particularly in older guns that were never designed to fire any round other than that of standard pressures. To me, it's a safety concern and has nothing to do with performance of the cartridge.

Your Sig P230, on the other hand, is a newer gun and not a 30+ year old military surplus gun designed around military ammo. I wouldn't think twice about it.

[Foo Bird]

I believe I will abandon this thread as this subject is like hitting your head on a brick wall. Open discussion on this matter seems to be verboten. So guys count me out.

fknipfer1

Something to keep in mind is that this site has been around for 5 years and in that time certain things about the P64 have been learned. One of those is that 115gr bullets hurt these guns.
No one is bashing you, but they did want to give you a heads up. Sorry you didn't see it that way.

[918collector]

I know this thread is getting a little old, and that it has veared off-subject, but I wanted to weigh in with an opinion, if I might.
First, I respect Chuck Hawks. I have read several of his articles both on firearms and motorcycles and he seems both sensible and balanced.
Second, there was indeed a time when S&W let their quality slip. Hopefully, this ended when CNC machines took over. The last S&W quality boo-boo I have personally seen was a blackened scandium Chief Special. The finish went to hell when carried on-person. A serious defect which I hope they have corrected.
Third, I remember the infamous sell-out. S&W got the backlash they deserved from the shooting community and hopefully learned their lesson.
All that being said, I have owned and still own a number of S&W products. I personally have never had a quality issue with any of them.
My advice is that if you ever get a S&W product or any other firearm with an obvious quality issue, give the manufacturer a chance to make it right. If that doesn't work, push it. Don't get ugly, just be persistent. I can't imagine any manufacturer in this litigious era not bending over backward to protect their rep and avoid lawsuits. It's a lot cheaper to do the right thing. For example, I once had some Federal 32 magnum ammo that split the cases when fired. I returned some examples to Federal with a letter detailing what happened and they replaced the defective rounds with 4 boxes of new stuff (none of which split).
Now back to our favorite subject..........

[bluedsteel]

You forgot to mention the Walthers PPKS massive safety recall going on with Smith & Wesson right now.

[rottenrick]

I have a favorite line from a movie (doesn't everyone?) It's Jeff Goldblum in 'Jurassic Park'. "Just because you CAN do something DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD". I think it's a sound way of looking at things, but you have to make your own decisions. I would certainly use BB in hunting weapon. Call me an old fuddy duddy a P-64 is not a hunting weapon. I'll put my faith in Hornady, SpeerGolddot and god.

[918collector]

It seems to me that there has always been a discussion of well, every round that is in use, to push the limits of its performance. The question is where the ultimate safe limit should be.

There is a simpler solution: buy a gun that shoots a more powerful round. I'm not saying this as someone for whom money is no object. I'm certainly not in that position. I'm just saying that, for example, there are plenty of modern 9mm parabellum compacts around that don't cost an arm and a leg; certainly so on the used market. They offer many more ammunition choices and are pretty much all more powerful than any available 9x18 load. I keep standard-velocity Federal JHPs in my Keltec PF9, which is as compact as it gets, and have some +P+ rounds that I use only in my steel-framed Smith auto and my Ruger revolver with moon clips.

Now, how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.......

[bluedsteel]

Buffalo Bore now includes a copy of the Lords Prayer in it's over priced, over powered ammunition. Let's face it there are a lot of stupid people in the world. PT Barnum called them "Suckers" and Henry Ford called them "Customers". You decide!