The Unofficial P64 Resource Forum

Yesterday I was perusing some of my favorite haunts on the net and I noticed that Empire Arms has a new batch of P-64's with two mags at $175.00 each. Evidently the word is getting around that the P-64 is a great pistol at a grate price.

Yes and we know it will always be a great pistol just how long will it remain a great price is the debate?? Invest now if you can. If I had the ability I'd pick up a couple of P-64s as well as a couple of CZ-82s (maybe even a CZ-52) for the idea of future resale. The Nagant wholesales for $70 - $90 and retails (even at auction) for $150 and up. So won't these others.

Just a word of caution from the ol' fuddy duddy here, selling guns for profit is the area restricted to those who have a federal firearms liscense.

Well, in this state face-to-face gun sales are legal and I've always made a profit from the guns I've sold. And I expect the people I've bought a gun from have also made a profit. The sale price is not recorded anywhere, but you're smart to get ID (and a copy of their CCP) during a private sale. A C&R holder who buys guns through his license operates under different rules, but most of the people I've come to know over the past 8 - 10 years cruising forums across the country are constantly buying and selling guns in private sales for profit.

Now I'm not advocating starting a new business but there is no law against anyone buying (collecting) firearms and at sometime in the future selling them for a profit. Some states limit the number of sales personally transfered annually thus necessitating using an FFL to transfer. Even the ATF doesn't expect a C&R holder never to sell a firearm or to sell it at a loss. There are no laws regarding this fact other than the stipulation that buying and selling with a C&R cannot be one's "livelihood".

I say buy a few of everything you can afford for your retirement or your heirs!!

Well, ok, whatever you guys say. I'm sure you all know what you are talking about and ol' mr fuddy duddy here is totally wrong.

They'll pull my receipt from my cold dead fingers.

Hay Bender, don't die just yet, your only the second guy in the area that I know actually exists, I'll be sad and lonely if 33% of the locales drop dead on me.
There are still several pistole's left at some of the Web auctions at a reasonable price. My complaint with some of the sellers is that the "actual cost of shipping" from them is usually "overnight delivery at $35.00" that doesn't seem to arrive for a week or more. That is a rip off that should be self monitored by the industry and curtailed ASAP.

Just a thought here from a lawyer outside his specialty--but isn't whether you are required to have an FFL or not essentially a matter of volume--how many sales you make over a given period of time? At any rate, as I understand it, it's governed by Federal law, same for all the states...

That's the way I understand it. Volume would be an indicator of "for income"; and this point:
one can sell a gun for more than he paid for it, and not necessarily make a profit on the sale. Sure, I'm acquainted with face to face sales and the policy in Texas. Very familiar. In past years, I was also acquainted with more than one fellow who were mainly known for selling guns, no questions asked. None the less, a warning is appropriate to those types of guys nowadays, and especially those younger guys who are enamoured with firearms and plan on buying and selling guns every waking moment. I don't know anyone personally that does that now, but I know there are some occassionally. The BATFE makes them wish they hadn't.

Well I dream of living in a free state but just don't see it in the near future.

Need I say more than...Massachusetts?

You need a license (FFL) to retail guns (and by law a retail storefront). Only 4 per year personal transfers (face to face sales) without a FFL involved. And the FFL can only retail, sell or transfer for you weapons on the approved Mass Attorney General's List. Never mind the special licenses to store and retail (retail storefront also needed) ammo.

Needless to say most of the politicians in Mass think no one needs a gun or ammunition for them! For years they have been making it more and more difficult and basically trying to destroy that small industry of firearms and ammunition dealers (down by 70% over the last 15 years). I was recently at an "old-timer's" shop...above his garage. This used to be the norm and the state made the retail store front requirement for an FFL and most like this small local outlet shut down. The state took this guy's license away and it took him 3 years in court to get it back. Unfortunately by then most of his customers had established relationships elsewhere and he struggles in his retirement.

It is amazing when you look at the wide range of laws or lack there of regarding the sale of firearms iacross this country. I think there should be some regulation to insure the nutbags out there and we all know they exsist, from acquiring weapons. But not so restrictive as to keep the law abiding gun owners from owning what they want.

Carguy,

Consider Texas or Oregon, my favorite two states in the nation. Then there's New Mexico, some great employment and home-buying opprotunities there! Another less referred to state, but a great free place to live is Oklahoma. Everywhere new takes a period of adjustment, but life is mostly about your attitude going into things. So, if you make up your mind to be happy in a place and you usually can, right?! Providing, of course, you've got a good place to shoot, and laws that allow a law-abiding citizen to protect themselves!

It would not be a bad idea to know the federal regs and how they apply to to non-FFL holders. I think I will visit our local ATF office tomorrow to see what I can find out. They probably have the information printed up, I can't imagine that we are the only group of people who have asked that question. If I can work it into my schedule I will give a report.
G.R.

Members,

You will gain a lot of information on this subject from the ATF by going to this page and opening the link, IV-4, "Questions and Answers":

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2 ... /index.htm

Starting on page 8 of this PDF publication are many items of interest and page 10 begins to get close to home on the subject of sales, face-to-face, etc.

bZinggg.

bzingg, I have traded,sold and bought from guns from individuals. However I am not sure it is really legal. If you sell a gun to a guy and that gun is stolen and usen in a crime and the gun is found, guess who the are going to want to visit? I tried to use that thread but it locked up my computer. Anyway that IS something to think about.