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Successive firing?
Posted: January 1st, 2016, 11:02 pm
by Jon H
Hi everyone and Happy New Year!
I got my very first P64 less than 2 months ago and really like it.
Mine has the normal wear and has a 1971 year of manufacture. It came with the original leather holster, cleaning rod and an extra mag.
Seeing that the 9mm Makarov pistols replaced the Tokarev pistols in military/police service in Europe, I decided to take my Zastava M57 in 7.62 Tokarev to the range along with my newly purchased P64 for comparison. I thought it seemed odd that they replaced a basically full size pistol with a notorious cartridge for a smaller size pistol with a cartridge of significantly lower power even though the Makarov round uses a larger heavier gain bullet. Little did I know what I would be in for!
I thought the mighty Tokarev would be a tough act to follow but I was surprised at the
Blast and the power out of this little Polish powerhouse! It really surprised me and was also quite accurate too!
One thing I did notice was a couple of times it seemed to fire almost immediately twice in a row. It feels sometimes that the gun almost fires twice in a row with only pulling the trigger once. It did this with both magazines and only about maybe 2 shots out of each magazine. It did this both times I took it to the range. I don't know if its me or could it be an internal spring or part?
Any feedback appreciated
Thanks
Jon
Re: Successive firing?
Posted: January 1st, 2016, 11:37 pm
by Brno
Does the pistol have a light/hair trigger in SA? Perhaps you are unconsciously releasing the trigger slightly and then retightening.
Re: Successive firing?
Posted: January 2nd, 2016, 12:18 am
by Curly1
+1 if the hammer spring has been replaced with a lighter one it will have a "hair" trigger.
Re: Successive firing?
Posted: January 2nd, 2016, 12:19 am
by Jon H
Thanks Brno, yeah my single action pull is (now that I have checked it) extremely light, almost a hair trigger type pull. Pretty sensitive. It doesn't take much to squeeze a shot off now that you mention it. The double action pull isn't nowhere near as bad as a couple others I tried that I saw at the local gun shows. So I may not even replace the spring with the Wolf aftermarket ones that are available.
Thanks for pointing that out....
Jon
Re: Successive firing?
Posted: January 2nd, 2016, 12:23 am
by Jon H
(Curly 1) I don't think the hammer spring has been replaced. I doubt it as I bought it off a dealer who carries used, military surplus guns. I wonder how you could tell if it was? Is there a noticeable difference in the Wolf replacement spring versus the original?
Re: Successive firing?
Posted: January 2nd, 2016, 1:17 am
by Curly1
I got mine with the spring replaced and I have the original and it is very light vs what other members have posted about the original hammer spring.
Re: Successive firing?
Posted: January 2nd, 2016, 8:18 am
by chestertnted
When you pull the #20 DA, then go SA you get a very short reset, and a very light trigger pull. It is almost a slam fire. If you practice you can control it.
Re: Successive firing?
Posted: January 2nd, 2016, 12:09 pm
by Weasel640
Next time you take it to the range make a conscious effort to reset your trigger finger to the front of the trigger guard after every shot. This reduces the likelihood that you are accidentally firing a second shot with the hair trigger. If you are still getting a slam fire effect after that (when you know you are not touching the trigger) then you may need to troubleshoot how your disconnector, trigger bar, and sear interact.
The effort you are describing for your DA/SA seems to indicate that your hammer spring has been replaced with a lighter one. These are Milsup Guns, you never know what modifications could have been made before you. There could have been a "field gunsmith" that modded your hammer spring.
Re: Successive firing?
Posted: January 2nd, 2016, 12:23 pm
by robhic
Weasel640 wrote:The effort you are describing for your DA/SA seems to indicate that your hammer spring has been replaced with a lighter one. These are Milsup Guns, you never know what modifications could have been made before you. There could have been a "field gunsmith" that modded your hammer spring.
+1 The original spring gives about a 30# pull weight! There is NO mistaking the original spring being in the gun. But the SA pull is in no way proportional to it. It drops down to like 4-5 lbs. I think. BIG difference.
Lighter Wollf springs make it even more noticeable. I have the 18# hammer spring in my P64s and the SA weight gets to about 3-3.5 lbs. as measured by the guy at the indoor range I use.
Re: Successive firing?
Posted: January 2nd, 2016, 8:33 pm
by drummer
I replaced the original hammer spring with an 18 lb Wolff on my P64 and I have had the same experience that you have. The SA pull on the trigger is so light that I had a couple of unintended fires my first trip to the range with it. I bought the gun for an optional carry gun and will carry it with the gun chambered, hammer de-cocked so my first pull would be a DA so I'm not overly concerned since even with hammer spring replace the DA pull is still pretty stiff.
Re: Successive firing?
Posted: January 2nd, 2016, 10:04 pm
by snailman153624
It's the 2nd shot that is accidental, and going from a stiff da to light sa is part of the problem. You instinctively think the 2nd trigger pull will be the same, plus your finger is a little numb from the stiff da and sharp recoil.
I would suggest practicing holding the trigger fully depressed until you've regained control from the recoil, then let it reset.
Re: Successive firing?
Posted: January 6th, 2016, 4:13 pm
by Jon H
chestertnted wrote:When you pull the #20 DA, then go SA you get a very short reset, and a very light trigger pull. It is almost a slam fire. If you practice you can control it.
Ok thank you, I will have to practice with it and be aware of the big transition from DA to SA.
Re: Successive firing?
Posted: January 6th, 2016, 4:21 pm
by Jon H
Weasel640 wrote:Next time you take it to the range make a conscious effort to reset your trigger finger to the front of the trigger guard after every shot. This reduces the likelihood that you are accidentally firing a second shot with the hair trigger. If you are still getting a slam fire effect after that (when you know you are not touching the trigger) then you may need to troubleshoot how your disconnector, trigger bar, and sear interact.
The effort you are describing for your DA/SA seems to indicate that your hammer spring has been replaced with a lighter one. These are Milsup Guns, you never know what modifications could have been made before you. There could have been a "field gunsmith" that modded your hammer spring.
Thanks Weasel, I am going to try the method you described and see if that works. I'm guessing like others have said it's easy to get lost in the confusion after that first DA pull. That and having felt the recoil from the just fired shot could make it easier to squeeze one off accidentally/unknowingly especially when I'm probably still not used to the pistol.
I really wonder if my hammer spring was replaced or a "field mod" was done to it? It was in no way nearly as bad as some others I dry fired at the local gun shows.
Re: Successive firing?
Posted: January 6th, 2016, 4:24 pm
by Jon H
snailman153624 wrote:It's the 2nd shot that is accidental, and going from a stiff da to light sa is part of the problem. You instinctively think the 2nd trigger pull will be the same, plus your finger is a little numb from the stiff da and sharp recoil.
I would suggest practicing holding the trigger fully depressed until you've regained control from the recoil, then let it reset.
Re: Successive firing?
Posted: January 6th, 2016, 4:26 pm
by Jon H
drummer wrote:I replaced the original hammer spring with an 18 lb Wolff on my P64 and I have had the same experience that you have. The SA pull on the trigger is so light that I had a couple of unintended fires my first trip to the range with it. I bought the gun for an optional carry gun and will carry it with the gun chambered, hammer de-cocked so my first pull would be a DA so I'm not overly concerned since even with hammer spring replace the DA pull is still pretty stiff.