First Outing, Several Problems

[P64inDixie]

Well I took my 1971 out today for the first time. After two magazines, I had a stovepipe FTE. I fired 50 more rounds in total and experienced 3 or 4 FTF issues where a round would place in proper position, but the following round in the mag would tilt at a stange angle touching the bottom rim of the proper round and preventing the slide from closing.

Any ideas?

[fully machined]

Try cleaning the chamber again. Firing those first rounds probably heated up a hard to get out/off cosmoline wax stuff.

[Curly1]

What brand of ammo are you using?

Was it on one mag or both?

If only one brand of ammo try another.

[PA-Joe]

Also make certain that you clean the inside of the magazines.

[P64inDixie]

OK, so I opened her up today and gave her a real good cleaning. While I was doing that, I noticed the hammer was back and thus I wouldn't be able to reassemble the weapon. So, I fiddled with different things to try to get it to lock down. I finally got it do so, but now the trigger is nolonger engaging the hammer and I hear something rattling around in the frame.

Man, so many problems with this one. I am very frustrated, I have never experienced problems like this with Commie-built weapons. I am a hardline Capitalist, but I believe full-on in Communist-built firearms. The ONLY weapon I own that is NOT commie-built is my Walther PPS in .40 cal. It's a good thing I have it too, because now that my P-64 is "broke" my German made Walther is all I have to defend myself and my family.

[fully machined]

Oh man! Did you mean that the trigger, not hammer, was back and would not be able to reassemble? Take your grips off and see if the trigger bar has spring tension. It should go up when you press down and release.

[P64inDixie]

No, the hammer itself was back while the weapon was dissassembled. Now, it is back in place but the trigger has no influence over it. I can pull the trigger all day but it acts like the safety is on, i.e. no resistence to pull and no effect on the hammer. And as I said there sounds like something is loose and rattling around in there.

[juniustaylor]

It is normal for the disconnector to rattle around. It is only held in a slot and is allowed to move up and down without restriction. If you shake the pistol, you will likely hear it rattling.

As for the trigger issue. The spring in the trigger mechanism that holds the trigger bar up may have come out of place. Therefore, the trigger bar is not being held up against the hammer to make contact with it. Take a look at the trigger bar with the right grip panel off. If the bar is hanging low and not making contact with the hammer, then I would be very positive the spring is your issue. I'll try to find a picture.

[juniustaylor]

This is one of Norm's pictures. It shows the spring under the trigger bar piece. If the spring isn't holding the trigger bar in place, it could also rattle around as well.

[Weasel640]

I noticed the hammer was back and thus I wouldn't be able to reassemble the weapon.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. When you removed the slide, it inherently locks the hammer back. You are describing something it is supposed to do. You will need the hammer back to replace the slide. Refer to page 63 of the Assembly Manual. To me it sounds like you may have created a problem while troubleshooting a non-existent problem.

Like juniustaylor said, you will need to check the trigger bar (page 51-53 of the Assembly Manual) for proper function. Here is a better picture of how it should look like at rest:


Keep in mind that if the gun is dirty (with cosmo) it could cause the disconnector to stick in the down position causing the trigger bar not to engage. You can read through the Limp Trigger thread for a better understanding of that fix.

To your original problem there are many things that can cause what you are describing. I'd try a different magazine first, change ammo, maybe check the bottom of your slide for any debris or damage that might cause that second round to follow the first.

[P64inDixie]

Yeah I screwed up by forcing the hammer down while I had the gun disassembled. I took it in to my gunsmith that I use when I do something dumb like this from time to time, and he said he could make things right.

Thanks for the responses fellas.

BTW: I did manage to get the slide back on after I had gotten the hammer into the DA position. I don't know if that will screw things up further.

[P64inDixie]

I took my '71 in to the gunsmith. He told me I had snapped the spring in two and had to manufacture a new one himself. He didn't do anything about the fail to feed issue. We'll see what happens on the next outing.

[Curly1]

Just to clarify, which spring is he talking about?

[Weasel640]

Just to clarify, which spring is he talking about?

I was wondering that too. I assume it's the Trigger Return Spring that had broke.

Also the more I think about the FTF issue I'm really leaning on it being a magazine issue rather than the gun. P64inDixie, If you have extra magazines keep track of each ones performance. You should be able to isolate the problem to a single mag.