New CCW holders

bzinggg · Post by **bzinggg** » January 20th, 2007, 3:16 pm

If you have nothing to hide, don't be a hider. The habit of being honest and forthright with authorities is seen as co-operation and and indicator that you are an upright citizen. It creates no suspicion or probable cause, and will reduce the time you have to be involved with police officers during any given incident. They sincerely appreciate this in that it also reduces the work load for them, so that they can spend more time getting to the bottom of real wrong doing, which creates a safer community in which you can live.

himmel · Post by **himmel** » January 20th, 2007, 5:44 pm

Steve, Abwehr....
Another guy who IS a lawyer ( I know, he was a co-worker with me...LOL!) gave me the down side of non-compliance--like Steve said, the cop takes it as a suspicious sign, says he is "detaining" you while he waits for the drug dog--This practice was apparently prevalent on long stretches of lonely highway, where the wait for the "drug dog" could stretch into hours, the idea being that the driver would get tired of waiting and go ahead and "consent" to the search...Sounds legally iffy to me, but not beyond the realm of possibility...

himmel · Post by **himmel** » January 20th, 2007, 5:46 pm

BTW, here in Texas, a CCL holder is required to show it to any officer who asks for any ID, even if the officer does not ask about the CCL specifically.

beasleydano · Post by **beasleydano** » January 20th, 2007, 8:00 pm

In my area of MS routine procedure for a law enforcement officer is to call in the vehicle tag number which is cross refenced to the driver's license number of the registered owner which is also cross referenced to the handgun permit number (MS Driver's License and MS Handgun Permit are both issued by MS Dept. of Public Safety). The officer then has a good indication of who may be operating the vehicle and may expect an armed citizen before he proceeds toward the operator of the vehicle. When an officer asks for your driver's license you should, according to state law, also submit your handgun permit to him. Even before MS issued a state handgun permit a citizen in my county could obtain a county handgun permit from the Sheriff. Even without a handgun permit MS law allows a citizen to have a firearm in his home, his place of business and his auto.

vermonter · Post by **vermonter** » January 23rd, 2007, 11:27 am

Where do you guys get your information? They can search your person and the area in the immediate control of the driver for their safety. Don't be a wise ass with the cops if you live in a police state like Ohio.... If you don't like that kind of intrusion move to a free state like Montana or Maine

This paste is from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_warrant

Paste:

Police do not need a search warrant to search a vehicle if it was stopped by police on the road or is in a non-residential area, so long as the officer has probable cause to believe that it contains contraband or evidence of a crime. Police may then search any open or closed container with that vehicle.

Police do not need a search warrant, or even probable cause, to perform a limited search of a suspect's outer clothing for weapons, if police have a reasonable suspicion to justify the intrusion - a Terry 'stop and frisk.'

himmel · Post by **himmel** » January 23rd, 2007, 12:38 pm

I dunno about the others, I got my info from law school and from other lawyers...but I haven't been involved with criminal law for years now, and I know that search-and-seizure law is pretty fluid, especially as relates to things like car searches. And as you pointed out, the officer has to be able to justify his seach, beyond a "stop and frisk" with a showing of probable cause.

anjdrifter · Post by **anjdrifter** » January 23rd, 2007, 12:44 pm

been a while but we were allowed within arms reach to search for personal safety. it was not for evidence search or seizure

redfestiva · Post by **redfestiva** » January 23rd, 2007, 1:00 pm

The police can search my car or my person if they want, I am completely law abiding and have nothing to hide. Police are the good guys just like me. They are on my side.

anjdrifter · Post by **anjdrifter** » January 23rd, 2007, 1:26 pm

well said I agree

truth · Post by **truth** » January 23rd, 2007, 2:13 pm

Positions of power, however small or big, often times will corrupt people of strong moral character. Cops, at all levels, are not exempt. So beware of whomever is pulling you over at all times.

himmel · Post by **himmel** » January 23rd, 2007, 2:49 pm

Ya know, if it came down to it, I expect I would let the officer search too--but police are like everyone else, there are good 'uns and bad 'uns (kind of like lawyers, but the proportions probably differ

) and as a former prosecutor, I still take the position that no culpability attaches to a person's assertions of their Constitutional rights per se.

Post by **normsutton** » January 23rd, 2007, 8:21 pm

The police can search me and my car I don't have anything to hide , I was rear ended 2 years ago the deputy ask me for my drivers license I gave him my carry permit , all said was it was the wrong Id , I keep both in the same place. we have one hell of a good SHERIFF DEPARMENT in POLK COUNTY

NORM

bzinggg · Post by **bzinggg** » January 23rd, 2007, 8:29 pm

You have a choice, wherever you are. You can purport principle and make everything a confrontation over constitutional law, or you can live in the real world, and deal with these situations in a realistic manner. IF A COP STOPS YOU AND YOU START WITH THE NON-COOPERATIVE ATTITUDE, IT GIVES HIM PAUSE AND CREATES SUSPICION. Sometimes, we forget that these folks take an oath to protect public safety. They are trained and obliged to take notice of signs and irregularities in the behavior of people that belie criminal activity. Monitoring auto traffic on public roadways is the number one way for them to get a window on clues that can help them prevent CRIME. That is their goal. It is for the safety of the general public. As we become more and more threatened by criminals and enemies, liberty WILL be infringed to a greater extent. It is law enforcements' job, it is a hard row to hoe, and it is in the best interest of the law-abiding citizen to be cooperative with law enforcement officers and others who are generally classified as THE AUTHORITIES. If you obey the law, cooperation will, over time, have the effect of increasing your own personal liberty. Adopt an attitude of cooperation with law enforcement, for, with rare exception, they are friends of the community.

truth · Post by **truth** » January 23rd, 2007, 10:27 pm

It has always bewildered me that police of most sorts are more interested in dead inspection stickers, turn signals, speeding, and all sorts of traffic citations while real crime goes on. As a state trooper stops you for not using a turn signal; someone is being raped, many thousands of dollars worth of drugs change hands, a wife is being beaten by her spouse, violent crimes of all nature takes place. It seems, these things go on while law enforcement officers are gaining revenue by citing you with petty violations, on interstates and highways far from were they need to be, were real crime is taking place. Just a thought......

bzinggg · Post by **bzinggg** » January 23rd, 2007, 11:20 pm

Well, gee, I guess we need to hire a policeman to watch every wife to make sure she doesn't get beaten, and one for every house and building to make sure it isn't broken into. They also must qualify for this comprehensive duty by being required to be infallibly psychic, so that they don't waste your tax dollars, because you'rer going to raise hell about that, too.

Or maybe, through years of experience, they have learned that those folks who make a habit of disregarding the small rules, like being required to have a legal inspection sticker, working tail lights, or obeying safe speed limits, are many times guilty of disregard for the rest of the laws we live by, also, and they can get a little history down that makes them easier to track when they eventually lose control and beat the crap out of their wife.

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