The Unofficial P64 Resource Forum

First, I’d like to apologize for deviating from the P-64 for a moment. I reassure myself that you guys won’t mind because, like me, most of you enjoy plinking with these little surplus numbers and I just didn't know where else to comment about this.

I recently purchased a Zastava and a P-64 from Southern Ohio Guns. The P-64 was a beaut, but the Zastava was really in nasty condition. Anyway, this is the email I sent to SOG:

To Whom It May Concern:

I recently placed an order with you for a P-64 and a Zastava (and a separate order for 2 mags). Everyone was very helpful and the items shipped in timely fashion. The P-64 was a real beauty. I'm quite please with that purchase.

However, I wanted to express my disappointment in the condition of the Zastava. The item was listed as "good to very good condition." The pistol I received was in relatively good working order aside from the safety. However, the gun is covered small but very abundant corrosion pits and heavy wear. This is a fair weapon at best. Not good, and certainly couldn't be confused for a very good.

I've heard very good things about you and was surprised with the disappointing pistol. I thought you might want to know.

I have not gotten a response from anyone at SOG and don't particularly expect too. But I want everyone to know that they are evidently scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as Zastavas go and aren't in the mood to change their advertising. Just be advised, I would not have purchased this weapon in person for half what I spent online.

Thanks for letting me go off course a little. Now, back to the 64...

Cheers.

Dirtyharry, Keep me apprised as to SOG's answer. I have purchased several pistols from them with good results. Two were Zastavas. Both were in very good condition. I, like you, would have been disappointed in anything less. Later Don

Don,

You bet. But I really don't think they'll be commenting. I forgot to mention above that I sent this email on December 6th. And even when I sent the email I didn't really expect a reply. I just wanted to give them a chance to hear me out before I complained publicly.

Even though I don't excuse whomever it was that decided to send it to me as a "good to very good" pistol, I get the sense that if you buy surplus you will bump into this from time-to-time.

It's just a bummer. The Zastava played into my Christmas gift plans and now it will spend its life in a dark corner.

Cheers,
JB

Harry, just call them ASAP and ask for a return authorization, referencing the email you sent.

Bet you can get a better one, or a refund.

Stan

Stan,

That's interesting. I presume I would lose the transfer fee, both to and from. I'm not sure but I think I can't ship the weapon myself. Anyone know for certain?

Cheers,
JB

Just to get this back on topic ;D I got a P64 from SOG that had a bad safety ... I complained on the phone and they had me ship it back (anyone can ship a pistol to an FFL as long as you declare it as a pistol when you ship it) ... they sent me another and credited my VISA for the $30+ that UPS charged me to ship it back to them next day air (required by UPS). SOG treated me WAY better than I expected.

Saands

I think that everyone should read the NRA antique standard descriptions before buying surplus firearms. I've seen so many complaints like this. I think SOG should post the standards they are using for buyers to read in advance.

The NRA antique standard is what EVERY online seller whether an auction or a formal sales website is using as a standard.

Some vendors like AIM will cater to what a buyers expectations might be based on buyers with no experience with the NRA antique standard. However, SOG follows the NRA antique standard, but doesn't inform buyers very well. AIM follows the NRA antique standard in many cases too though.

I'm not defending SOG! However, they are selling what they promised. I bet they'll take the pistol back too.

I got this summary of the NRA antique standard off of the Inter Ordnance website because it is fairly brief. At least they post it for buyers. I'm not sponsoring them either!

FACTORY NEW: All original parts; 100% original finish; in perfect condition in every respect, inside and out.
EXCELLENT: All original parts; over 80% original finish; sharp lettering, numerals, and design on metal and wood; unmarred wood; fine bore.
FINE: All original parts; over 30% original finish; sharp lettering, numerals, and design on metal and wood; minor marks in wood; good bore.
VERY GOOD: All original parts; none to 30% original finish; original metal surfaces smooth with all edges sharp; clear lettering, numerals and design on metal; wood slightly scratched or bruised; bore disregarded for collectors firearms.
GOOD: Some minor replacement parts; metal smoothly rusted or lightly pitted in places, cleaned or reblued; principal lettering, numerals, and design on metal legible; wood refinished, scratched, bruised, or minor cracks repaired; in good working order.
FAIR: Some major parts replaced; minor replacement parts may be required; metal rusted, may be lightly pitted all over, vigorously cleaned or reblued; rounded edges on metal and wood; principal lettering, numerals, and design on metal partly obliterated; wood scratched, bruised, cracked, or repaired where broken; in fair working order or can be easily repaired and placed in working order.
POOR: Major and minor parts replaced; major replacement parts required and extensive restoration needed; metal deeply pitted; principal lettering, numerals, and design obliterated; wood badly scratched, bruised, cracked, or broken; mechanically inoperative; generally undesirable as a collector's firearm

The NRA antique standard is what EVERY online seller whether an auction or a formal sales website is using as a standard.

Sorry, that's no defense here. These are not even close to antique status. These are weapons from the 1970s. 1898 is the date for antique firearms.

Saands,

Great to know. I had no idea I could ship a firearm (but I do now!). I'll give SOG a call today and see what they have to say. Thanks for the tip.

Cheers.

Buying a modern milsurp weapon graded to the NRA Antique Standard could cause some heartache all right. I don't know who would buy a P-64, or a Zastava, with none to 30% finish ... except for some parts or dump truck gun.

Haha! I hadn't thought about it in quite such real terms but you're exactly right, nbender. A "very good" with a disregarded bore...yeah um, no thanks.

I must confess though, I have a real habit of purchasing junk...I just like to know when I'm doing it!

Anyway, I didn't have time to contact SOG again today and I don't see the time coming up to deal with it until Thursday at the earliest. I'm pretty ready just to chalk this one up to a glitch in the matrix and a (let's call it) $50 donation to the life isn't always perfect fund.

Cheers.

Good attitude dirtyharry, I got tricked on a gun deal, an old 38 Taurus that wouldn't revolve everytime. I traded it to a gunsmith for this old partially chromed orbia that will revolve. My brother says it's not the ugliest pistol he's ever seen, but it's probably number 2. Now it's my garage gun. I clean it every year or two and it still makes me smile. Later Don

My experience with SOG has been pretty good, so far, LOL! But I wanted one of the VZOR 82 pistols as part of my Christmas from the wife and it is not C&R. SO I had my local dealer order it for me and when I picked it up, it was in VG condition except for a few spots where the "paint" finish was chipped off. I was hoping for a better one, but pleased with the pistol.

Once I receive it Christmas, I will put something on the few bare spots to make it look a little better.

As the other guys stated, give SOG a call, they usually take care of things and make you happy.

Every one of these that I've seen or heard about has had a chip or two, and I find it amazing that sellers on many boards call this finish "blue" or "blued" without compunction!



The design is advanced, I'll admit, compared to other 9x18s. I bought two from AIM when they first became available, and then
sold one. They were comparable, quality-wise. The grips are plastic but comfortable, and the button mag release and ambidextrous safety a step up in eastern bloc 9x18 surplus military handguns. Mine functions smoothly and reliably. It shoots low, so I have to cover the bull with the blade, which I don't like; guess I'll have to file the blade. The CZ-83 has different height blades available from CZ to change the elevation of POA. I don't know if it works with the vz82 military or not, but I suspect it might. The capacity for rounds is a real plus, and I think the vs82 will easily handle the hottest of the 9x18 rounds. It cannot compare to the P-64 for accuracy, being equal to the Makarovs in that department.

The way the steel looks under the paint, visible at the chipped places impresses me with the suspicion that the alloy content is high and probably won't take bluing. I wish they were really blued. I would like that far better than this thermoset coating it has. It is military issue though, and the cost considerations account for the finish and the grips, I'm sure.



One great thing, you can carry the vs82 with one in, cocked and locked! With two mags, you're talking 25 rounds of capacity to cover for lack of accuracy in a highly charged situation! ;D

Um...dunno what to say except the age of the pistol doesn't matter. Almost all online vendors are using the antique standard. As mentioned, I have no interest in defending SOG.

The standards I posted, or close to them per the NRA antique standard, are what is being used for almost all online vendors, regardless of the age of the pistol.

If you have purchased any number of firearms online, you should be familiar with all of this. If you are not familiar with it and you continue to buy online, you will become familiar with it.

I took the standard above right off of the interordnance site, unmodified. They apply that standard to ALL OF THEIR FIREARMS REGARDLESS OF AGE. Everyone else is doing the same.

You will find that even AIM and other quality dealers will use the standard. I got my P-1 which arrived in excellent condition per the standard listed above. Not my expectation for "excellent". However, because they are very customer oriented, they'll do things like the Grade 1 category for customer satisfaction...... Places like AIM and SOG will also take returns even from a customer who failed to ask what the condition offered meant. I think that is pretty good, actually.

The best thing to do is ask what a dealers standard is before you buy rather find out when the item arrives. I usually ask around about an item on boards like this before I jump in and purchase it.

Here is a very similar standard (copy of the antique standard) I got off of the Century Arms website FOR ALL FIREARMS THEY SELL REGARDLESS OF AGE:

Condition Standards:
(Cleaning rods are not guaranteed with surplus firearms in any condition.)
New or Unissued condition: Not previously sold at retail or issued. In the same working condition as it came from the factory.
Excellent: 80-90% blue remaining, very little if any marring of the wood. Bores clean without pitting. Complete and in working condition.
Very Good: 50-80% of blue remaining, minor dings in wood from handling. Bores clean without pitting. Complete and in working condition.
Good: 25-50% blue remaining, stocks marred (several dings in wood) bores slightly worn and dark, no corrosion that will interfere with proper functioning. Complete and in working condition.
Fair: Very little, if any, blue remaining. Rough bores unless otherwise indicated, wood heavily marred. ~May require adjustment or replacement of parts. Metal can be pitted. Must be inspected by a competent gunsmith prior to shooting. Failure to do so may result in bodily injury or property damage.
Poor: Major and minor replacement parts required and extensive restoration needed, metal can be pitted, principal lettering design obliterated, wood badly scratched or bruised, mechanically inoperative. Product is for sale to be used for parts or display value only.

I purchased 2 of these last year to give as Christmas gifts. One was in mint condition, the other had some holster wear and some light rust on the exterior of the barrel around the chamber, though the gun itself must not have been shot much if at all, judging by the complete lack of blue wear on the slide. After trying out the rusty one, I couldn't bring myself to give it away. It was amazingly accurate, and had virtually no recoil. Its just a shame that I only have the one magazine.

The gun does have one problem. If the slide is locked back, and you release the magazine, the slide slams closed. It is more of an annoyance than anything, but I cant figure out what is making it do this. Anyone else have this problem? Any ideas on a fix? ???

Sorry to veer off topic a bit....