The Unofficial P64 Resource Forum

Looking for some wisdom. I'm not sure if any of you have messed with this idea, but I am wanting to know which way would be the best way to make a reduced power load for the M-N rifle. These are my two possibilities as I don't have reloading equipment.

The possibility on the right is to use an adapter that I'd have to buy for $15 + shipping. It would allow me to use all 3 of these rounds (.32 ACP, S&W Long, H&R Magnum). However, none of these three are very cheap. I read about using .310" diameter lead round balls that you'd use for muzzleloading. I'd only want these to go around 900 FPS, so if I were to use Triple-7 (non corrosive black powder subsititute) I'd use probably 15 grains of FFFg since I have a whole pound of the junk I'm not going to use for anything else.

Would it be better to use the adapter and the .32 brass, or use old 7.62x54r cases. I'd size the neck, dump the powder in, and seat the ball by hand so it is about halfway in the outside of the neck, like you see in the picture on the left? Main reason is, if I took that rifle deer hunting, but saw a rabbit that I wanted to kill, or a squirrel, I could do so with minimal noise. Other reason is, if letting my wife shoot the gun, it doesn't kick her so hard. IMO the Mosin's don't kick that hard, but for women it's different. They just don't have as much muscle or fat around that shoulder area.

From some small amount of info I've read, it appears that some folks use the old 7.62x54r brass because they recommend labeling the brass so you know which are the reduced power loads. There'd be no reason to label the .32 cases since obviously you'd know they were the reduced power loads if you were using the adapter. That's just my guess.

So, just looking for thoughts/opinions here. Some folks may think this is stupid, however, I think it could be useful and cheap.

Sounds to me like the adapter would be much easier and what I would probably opt for, I'm curious, who do you order them from?
Now having said that, the mystique of loading round ball and a black powder substitute would be a lot fun and very satisfying as well as a lot easier on your spouse.
G.R.

juniustaylor

I hate to tell you but all BP substitutes a very corrosive and more corrosive than BP especially on brass,and trip 7 is the worse
substitutes are considered propellants not and explosive like BP is

you will still have to change the primer's in them to reload them

NORM

I've been waiting for someone to finally reply! The problem with the adapter is that you'd constantly have to dig the little .32 case out of it and insert a new one. You can find it here:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/7 ... x?a=587989 The cost is $15 + shipping. All the .32 caliber rounds are expensive (S&W Long, ACP, and H&R Mag). I could buy the .32 cases and reload them with roundballs, but then that's stupid when I could just load the original 7.62x54r case with powder and a round ball...

I'm not worried about corroding the brass really. It's mostly all for fun. I have been muzzleloading for several years now, haven't noticed the Triple 7 to be bad at all for corrosiveness. I'm guessing you're saying it's hard on brass. I also know I'd have to change the primers, that's not a big deal. Primers and resize the neck. I highly doubt the 777 will bring the pressure over 15,000 CUP. I don't think the cases will need sized much if any. I'm not a big reloader, done it a few times for .30-30 Win and .243 Win.

I just think it could be a fun opportunity for a small game load if I were deer hunting with the rifle. I plan on making a couple experimental cartridges out of mil-surp rounds. I'll pull the bullets, dump the powder, put in the 777 and the ball. Of course it will have corrosive primers but who cares, they'd already be corrosive if I were shooting the load unmodified. They'll be a one time deal, but that would at least give me an idea if it would be worth it to pursue this vision with reloadable brass.

Thanks for the replies fellers.

Justin,
I think you answered your own question. Why? Just reload the original 7.62 X 54R cases with a differant powder load and same diameter round bullet. Check on what would be a good load as you do not want a squib load blocking the barrel.

I have deerhunted with my M44 Russian Mosin Nagant carbine rifle. Pop helped drill and tap a PU scope mount that my friends at Century Arms in St Albans, VT gave to me when I had my FFL.
A few others were made up on the carbine model and it worked out really well as some of our shots were 300+ yards out. Muzzle velocity was about 2500FPS.

I have never reloaded the Russian 7.62 X 54 round, but did it with other rounds like our 5.56 rounds to see if we could come up with a plastic training round for our indoor shooters. Finally the military folks did provide us with an indoor training round but closed down the range due to improper venting and lead particles. Sad as it cost taxpayers alot of money.

Finally the military folks did provide us with an indoor training round but closed down the range due to improper venting and lead particles. Sad as it cost taxpayers alot of money.

.... Figures!

I have made up my mind against the adapter and .32 caliber cases. I definitely don't want a squib load. I don't think the round ball will even spread enough to really grab the rifling anyway, so it shouldn't jam. However, just as a precaution, I would check after each shot to make sure it cleared the barrel and see what kind of accuracy it has at 25 yards or so. Some folks reported up to 2" groups at 50 yards. That may not seem that great, but I think it's neat.

Junius

not sure why you would do this, as 7.62 Russian is not that expensive least not to me. I love my M44 to much to use anything but a full power round. But then I love the full force.

This has nothing to do with cheap. I know the 7.62x54 round is already cheap @ .22 cents a shot. This is purely a "reduced power" load to hunt small game with if I were deer hunting but saw a small game animal instead. Being below 1,000 FPS, it should only sound a little lounder than a pellet rifle. This is all just all something that I would like to formulate. There are others on other forums that have done stuff like this. I just wanted to see what other folks thoughts were on this. I have a 91/30 that I modified and a slightly modified m38 that I bought from a friend.

Upon further investigation, it appears that my quest for this reduced load may have me use pistol powder. I do believe that to use blackpowder, it should be a compressed load. So, I'd have to fill the whole case up to about 1/8" from the top of FFg blackpowder and smash the round ball projectile in. That would propel the 46 grain round ball faster than I'd want it to. So, for now, that's out of the question. However, here is an article of a feller that loads .30-30 cases with pistol powder and round balls. He reports pretty darn good results.
Article here:
http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/rb30.htm

Here is another alternative:
Hammond Game Getter with an unattractive $45 price tag.
http://www3.telus.net/gamegetter/index.html
It is a neat idea, but I just don't like that price.

And here's a way to shoot one of the most cheap rounds from the Mosin-Nagant. An adapter to shoot 7.63 Mauser / 7.62 Tokarev from a Mosin-Nagant via an adapter. This guy makes custom adapters for a good price. $20 for blued steel, $27 for stainless both prices include the shipping.
http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm

If your caliber isn't listed, but you want to shoot a smaller cartridge with the same projectile diameter, you can email or call them and they'll let you know if they can do it. I believe you just have to send them an expended case from the rifle to make the adapter a perfect fit.

I think I'll definitely opt for an adapter to shoot the Tokarev ammo as I have a CZ-52 and I think it'd be really cheap and fun at .10 cents a round.

-Junius

juniustaylor

I think pistol powder is better, like 2400 , 4227 would work just fine. top it off with cotton
or Kapok, I don't like COW as a filler in a bottle neck case

NORM

I have heard of folks using polyester like you'd put in a pillow, etc. You just pull off a small tuft of it and put it in the case. They say it completely disintegrates on the way out and leaves no real fouling other than the powder. What are your thoughts on that Norm? I assume most anything would work. I think I've heard of corn meal as well. Thanks for the response.

juniustaylor

I use cotton balls in my 557/450 the 300 to a pack that way they are all the same size



NORM

What are actual bullet diameters for 7.62x25mm and 7.62x54R? I mean, if the diameters are close enough, why not reload 7.62x54R with the 7.62 Tok bullet, and change the powder load accordingly?

In concept, that should be close to this blunt-nosed Czech (I believe) "practice round" for 7.62x54R I have. It has decent enough accuracy out to 100 yards, but starts to drop off sharply after that. After normal 7.62x54R, these practice rounds are nice and light on recoil, too...

I measured them the other day. The ones for the x54r are about .3105" or so. The ones for the x25 are around .307". The neck inner diameter of the x54r is around .306". So, it may fit in loosely and I don't have reloading dies to do a neck crimp. However, it could probably work alright. I'm going to one of the gun stores here in town to pick up some .310" round balls to make some of these up. My friend (fknipfer1) doesn't have any of the 2400, but he has Unique, which I can use. So, maybe this weekend him and I will concoct some of these light loads.

I made up 20 of my reduced loads. They are loaded with 4 grains of Unique topped off with a 46 grain .310" round ball. They should hopefully get somewhere around 950 - 1000 FPS. We (fknipfer1 and I) crimped the neck opening where the ball sits to give it a bit better gas seal. I'll probably put some of the liquid Alox or some other form of bullet lubricant even though it may not really need it since it's not going too fast.

Here's a picture of one.


I'll post my experience with them when I eventually get around to shooting it.