Why is the CZ-82 C&R eligible????

[volfandan]

OK, I'm not complaining....but just confused. If this gun wasn't even developed until the early 80's, and used from '82 to '93.....why does the ATF list it as C&R eligible? We're talking a 12 round double stack, compact and easily concealable gun here???? :-X

So why the CZ-82, and not the P-64, PA-63, Makarov, SMC-918, etc???

[papabear]

AH, the $64,000 question, I can't answer your question, but I'm sure someone here can, I think maybe "anjdrifter" "bzinggg" or "carguy" might know, maybe they can help us out here, I would like to know too, because I'm thinking of getting one, I like the 12 round capacity mag [clip]

papabear

[anjdrifter]

AH, the $64,000 question, I can't answer your question, but I'm sure someone here can, I think maybe "anjdrifter" "bzinggg" or "carguy" might know, maybe they can help us out here, I would like to know too, because I'm thinking of getting one, I like the 12 round capacity mag [clip]

papabear

this one I cant really figure out except maybe the historical significance but that doesn't make sense. maybe because no longer made . no not that either.. Ahh maybe trade deficient and or something along those lines.

[barnett3006]

your trying to make since of a government policy vs. a government action...your just gonna give yourself a headache.


hey, what does a government policy have in common with theoretical physics?

give up? its the phenomenon known as paradox. (haha, lame joke)


Actually, someone probably wrote a very convincing letter to the ATF about the CZ-82 and why it should be C&R.

ATF rules say that firearms that are 50 years old are automatically C&R, newer firearms can be added to the C&R list if they meet certain requirements and people can submit letters to the ATF with the guns design specs, various other info and an explanation of why the gun should be C&R. Then some miracle happens and if the ATF finds that the gun meets the set requirements then it gets added to the C&R list.

[papabear]

barnett3006,

That's as good as anything I have heard, but who knows....... :'(

papabear

[anjdrifter]

barnett3006,

That's as good as anything I have heard, but who knows....... :'(

papabear

Da shadow dont

[barnett3006]

from the ATF web site http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/curios/intro.htm

Collectors Wanting a Determination

Collectors desiring to obtain a determination as to whether a particular firearm qualifies for classification as a curio or relic in accordance with 27 CFR 178.11 and 178.26 or a collector's item in accordance with § 179.25 and § 179.24 should submit a written request for a ruling. The letter should include:

1.) A complete physical description of the item;
2.) Reasons the collector believes the item merits the classification; and
3.) Data concerning the history of the item, including production figures, if available, and market value.

As stated in the regulations, submission of the firearm may be required prior to a determination being made. Please submit your request to:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Firearms Technology Branch, Room 6450
650 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20226
(202) 927-7910

[volfandan]

So in the year 2011, the M-16 will be 50 years old.....and the 1911 will celebrate it's 100th year! Maybe we should petition that both the AR-15 and the 1911 are archaic designs that were developed long ago, and therefore should be C&R eligible ::).

[carguy]

My guess is that someone (a distributor more likely than not AIM or Century...who has the best supply) convinced a museum curator to "express in his expert opinion" to the ATF that the CZ-82 was of historical significance due to the change in the world's geo-political structure, because of the fall of communism and end of the cold war...something like that.

Remember the ATF definition of C&R eligibility does allow for the weapon in question to be designated as collectible by a museum curator or "expert".

Other than that...like barnett said, someone wrote a damn convincing letter!

I think it is more likely the museum thing.

[nbender]

The CZ-82 was certified C&R by Sterling Nixon, Chief, Firearms Technology Branch, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, on February 13, 2007. The request was made in accordance with 27 CFR 478.11 by an anonymous collector (more likely importer?). The request was supported by Les Jensen, Curator, West Point Museum.

These catagories of firearms may be considered to be C&R under 27 CFR 478.11:

(a) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;

(b) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest;

(c) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

The request was granted based on Mr. Jensen's recommendation.

[anjdrifter]

Bottom line is that they are..bottom line I would not have bought it if it was C&R. Bottom line really like it. bottom line it was affordable. bottom line the Barrel is neat. even better bottom line the great ammo.

[papabear]

Thanks nbender, how we finally know the rest of the story.......... :-*

papabear

[carguy]

Thanks Nbender...like they say...it's not what you know but "who" you know!

Maybe we should petition Mr. Jensen for his support in making the Bulgy Mak, P-64, PA-63, (insert favorite non-C&R milsurp here) for help!?!

[volfandan]

It still just seems so weird that this made it. I know the AWB and Brady Bill sunset in '04, but:

This is a modern firearm

It is easily concealable

It holds (oh no!) high capacity over 10 rounds

And it is relatively inexpensive when compared to similar handguns.

[carguy]

All of the pertinent reasons to thank the lord above and Mr. Jensen of West Point for getting it made C&R!!! :-* :-* :-* :-*