The Unofficial P64 Resource Forum

blinddog,

There is nothing wrong with that link. You may need to repair your PDF reader, or you may have other problems related to your PC.

blinddog
right key on your mouse
save target as
then download it to a file

NORM

bzinggg,
Thanks for down loading the information to the forum, It will save me a trip to the ATF office. It is going to take some time to digest all the information but I hope it will be worth it. Here is a question that just came to mind, does a C&R lic. allow one to buy and sell C&R fire arms or do you still need a FFL to engage in the retail sales of those items?
G.R.

G.R.

You need 01 FFL to buy and sell
to engage in the retail sales
NORM

bzinggg,
Thanks for down loading the information to the forum, It will save me a trip to the ATF office. It is going to take some time to digest all the information but I hope it will be worth it. Here is a question that just came to mind, does a C&R lic. allow one to buy and sell C&R fire arms or do you still need a FFL to engage in the retail sales of those items?
G.R.

A C&R allows you to buy and sell C&R eligible firearms but as is the biggest Caveat...one cannot use a C&R 03 FFL as their livelihood. The govn't isn't saying you cannot sell your C&R acqusitions but the sale cannot be as a business or for your sole income. Anybody can buy and sell their "collection" and no one can tell you not to sell them for a profit. But only an 01 FFL is in the business of buying and selling firearms (not counting the other levels of FFLs).

There is actually an ATF form distributed to C&R holders with all the rules and regs as it is issued to list multiple firearms sales over a 7 day period. This is thtype of activity that may trigger (set off the bells and whistles) an ATF audit but it is not prohibited.

Read up and understand what the Curios and Relics License really is and use it to your advantage but be careful because now the Federal LEOs are involved with any infractions. And they are not always the nicest most considerate people (apologies to any on the forum).

A C&R license allows you to buy C&R firearms for your collection activity and does not allow you to engage in sales activity of C&R firearms.

I'm hoping we are in a disagreement of semantics.

You cannot engage in the "business" of selling C&R firearms but you are allowed to sell any and all of your collection at any time as it is your personal property.

You are allowed to sell any of your personal firearms that may be C&R to another C&R holder for whatever price you are able to receive (a profit or loss to you) at your descretion.

Again, the only limit put on you as a C&R holder is that you may not engage in the selling of C&R fireaems as a your "livelihood", as a business.

Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide (2005) the big white book issued with your C&R from the ATF.

Under General Information, Section 7, Page 160, section II: "Licensed collector may acquire, hold or dispose of these firearms as curios or relics. However they are still firearms as defined by 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3) and are therefore subject to all GCA controls. Generally, this category includes commemorative handguns, seni-automatic pistols, revlovers and rifles.

Section III: Weapons in this category are excluded entirely from the provisions of the NFA. Thus approval from the ATF to transfer these weapons is not required.

Finally Section IV (d): While a licensed collector may acquire and dispose of curios or relics from a personal collection, the collector is not authorized to engage in a firearms dealing business in curios and relics pursuant to a collector's license."

This is from the same book posted earlier in this thread but the specifics are from the general info section and not the Q&A. The Q&A barely touches on the C&R license.

carguy
You are right. Thanks for the clarification. Any newbie thinking about getting a C&R should not think that a C&R license is in any way intended to facilitate sales of C&R firearms. I imagine most C&R holders' Acquisition & Disposition books will be primarily acquisitions and very few dispositions. I think everybody except Norm Sutton occasionally sells personal firearms and should have no problem doing so legally without benefit of a FFL.... of course by legally I mean according to federal law.....not Massachusetts law. LOL. BTW, please do not be offended as I mean none to you. My hearty commendations for persevering in the gun hobby in such hostile territory.

None taken. I love this stuff. This entire discussion got me thinking and I finally dug out the book from the ATF because I suddenly wasn't so sure any more. 8~)

I honestly feel everyone on this forum is a friend and there isn't any negativity, always meant in good fun and ribbing.

Everyone has differences of opinions and someone has to be right (me) and someone has to be wrong (you), THIS TIME...8~)

PS: I've sold 3 guns in my life and I wish I hadn't. A small Raven 25 (like new) and a stainless Sterling 22LR to finance mosre recent stuff and a 22LR derringer with an interesting barrel that I would rotate to fire the 2nd round...I saw one on Gunbroker once that was going for almost $400!!!!!! I think I sold mine for $65 in the 70s.

carguy

You sold a Raven and a .22 Sterling? Can't fault you there! I have sold several as my interests have changed and have later regretted most of those sales... Python, .22 Diamondback, Detecive Special, Officers Model, Series 70 Govt Model, Ruger Standard Auto w/red grips, Speed Six, CZ75, Safari Arms Enforcer, M1 carbine, Hi-Standard Supermatic..... I can't go on....it's too depressing!

BD: But you are more in the business of this than I ever could be.
You have an FFL and enjoy the benefits to the fullest. Now
selling a 22 Diamondback and a Python...I hope you got ALOT
for them, wow!!

8~)