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Start Holding Your Breath
Posted: March 20th, 2008, 12:39 pm
by himmel
From the lawyer again-- "reasonable restrictions" is kind of a term of art in this context, it indicates that there is a Constitutional right at stake, but proposed restrictions on that right only have to meet a low-level of scrutiny to survive--ie is the proposed restriction "rationally related" to a legitimate government interest. What we are hoping is that the Court would find that there is not only an individual right, but that it is a "fundamental" right, and any proposed restriction on that right would have to survive "strict scrutiny", ie the restriction would have to protect a COMPELLING state interest, and would have to be cast in the narrowest way possible to protect that interest. Due to the way the issue was drawn by the Court here, they may be able to dodge that question for now--ie they could simply find that the DC law fails either test, so they wouldn't have to determine which applies--but I think they will determine that there is an INDIVIDUAL right, as a previous poster noted, and that will in itself be a step forward.
Start Holding Your Breath
Posted: March 20th, 2008, 3:51 pm
by michaelap
Here's a bit of usually useless information (you know jeopardy for couch potatoes) but now seems relevant. "the Militia Act of 1903" "In the wake of the Spanish-American War every able bodied male age 17 to 44 is by definition a member of the unorganized militia" Some time back I read this article in Americas First Freedom magazine and it just stuck. Different states may have different ages on theres Virginia is age 16 to 55. Just one of those things a little more irrelevant than the 2nd amendment. This at the least is fun trivia.
Start Holding Your Breath
Posted: March 24th, 2008, 11:07 pm
by carguy
Here's a bit of usually useless information (you know jeopardy for couch potatoes) but now seems relevant. "the Militia Act of 1903" "In the wake of the Spanish-American War every able bodied male age 17 to 44 is by definition a member of the unorganized militia" Some time back I read this article in Americas First Freedom magazine and it just stuck. Different states may have different ages on theres Virginia is age 16 to 55. Just one of those things a little more irrelevant than the 2nd amendment. This at the least is fun trivia.
Over the weekend I caught a replay of the Supreme Court presentation and listened for as long as I could. Justice Ginsberg referenced that act wondering if they were referencing men between those ages? I don't think the attorney for the plaintiff did such a great job. He agreed several times that he felt the the right to keep and bear arms went hand in hand with having a militia. I thought the goal was to identify that they were separate not joined atthe hip! Also where does the attorney for DC get off saying the district would not prosecute if someone were to use a handgun in their home for self defense! What a joke! They wait to pounce on "violators". Then Justice Scalia said how would one use it in self defense if they were abiding by the law? Hear a noise, turn on the lights, get my glasses, left-right-left on the safe, then left-right-left on the gun lock....where did I put my ammo!?! What a riot...we certainly know who is on our side and who is not.
Start Holding Your Breath
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 8:40 am
by torpeau
normsutton wrote:
(I also believe that anyone who thinks that Americans could EVER be disarmed is completely out to lunch. Exactly what force would be willing or able?)
I beieve this to be true TOO
I'm always amused by the anti-gun people who say how easy it is to get guns nowadays and they make a connection to high crime rates. Back in the '60s, you could mail a check to an importer and get a used Luger that Portugal had declared surplus and it would arrive in the mail in a couple weeks. You could walk into any pawn shop and walk out with a gun. Crime? Those were safer times back then!
Start Holding Your Breath
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 11:05 am
by gypsydavy
michaelap wrote:
"I think we all know what force indeed"
I'm asking. Exactly what force? Both willing and able. And please don't suggest that the brave men and women who volunteer to defend our country would ever turn on thier own. Same with LEO by and large. Don't believe me, ask a uniform.
I don't mean to make light of this. I realize that my "out to lunch" comment was a bit rude. This is a serious issue and would be served best by rational discussion.
I do hope that himmel will continue to inform layman like myself as to what happens in the SC.
gypsydavy
Start Holding Your Breath
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 3:57 pm
by gypsydavy
michaelap,
Please accept my apologies for the "out to lunch" comment. It was not directed at you or anyone in particular.
I am not refering to isolated incidents of civil unrest or natural disaster. God help us all in those situations! I question those who believe that Americans can or will ever be disarmed enmasse. This is not England or Australia. We took a different path. And no signature in D.C. can change the will of the people in the heartland.
Just my $.02
gypsydavy
Start Holding Your Breath
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 5:45 pm
by blinddog
What is scary is they could try to do it!!
Start Holding Your Breath
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 5:59 pm
by michaelap
In friendly conversation, Americans were disarmed and yes it can happen to us again. That idea needs to be on our minds every time we vote. Noone was able to do anything in New Orleans when the police came into the houses and took legal guns away. God help us in that situation because we are on our own. Our spirit says it can never happen but never say never we need to play the devils advocate. Let's say clinton or obama or someone like that becomes president, then let's say they sign on with bloomberg and then the un's contract to ban gun rights etc.etc.etc. When folks get complacent and say never all the time then it hits the fan. We took diferent paths before and some of them are just memories now. The point is we are not impervious. God bless America and God bless us but lets stay on our toes. What happened in New Orleans is something I thought would never happen and alot of those people still haven't gotten their guns back! It's just too bad the aclu cares more about pedophiles and atheists than real American civil liberties-they really need to change the name. Your friend in Ohio!
Start Holding Your Breath
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 7:46 pm
by gypsydavy
"Let's say clinton or obama or someone like that becomes president, then let's say they sign on with bloomberg and then the un's contract to ban gun rights etc.etc.etc."
That's a lot of let's say's and then's and etc's! I believe that during the course of these actions the public outcry would become defeaning. Since 911 we have become a considerably more gun tolerant nation. But even following your scenario it still begs the question: Exactly what force would be willing and able to carry out the confiscation of all of our guns? I believe that this is the fourth time I've asked this question.
Don't mind me, I'm just an optimisticly well-armed American!
gypsydavy
Start Holding Your Breath
Posted: March 26th, 2008, 1:14 am
by gypsydavy
I assume you're talking to me. I don't have time for your videos. And I'm through with this thread. If you want to continue digging this ditch have at it!
gypsydavy