m1 carbine

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trent
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Post by trent »

Does anyone know what type of finish the origional m1carbine's had on their stocks.

Although I may not refinish the stock i'm debating on it, it was my father's gun (not issued, he was born in 48, I think he bought it in the 70's) but it means alot to me and my brother (kind of a shared gun) so we have to both decide if we want to really make it look good, or to leave it as is (how he had it), the bluing is fine but the stock is a little bit rough and the top wood heat-shield part doesn't match the rest of the wood.

If I decide to refinish the stock, how can I do it to make it look like a wwII issue carbine?
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Post by normsutton »

Trent

BLO (BOILED LINSEED OIL)

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Post by trent »

Thanks Norm
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Post by normsutton »

Trent
BLO was used on all us military stocks
going back as far as the war between the states maybe even further

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saands
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Post by saands »

For $100 you can have your cake and eat it too! Go to the CMP website and order yourself a new set of walnut wood for that Carbine ... you can leave the original wood just like Dad had it and have new walnut to take to the range.

Saands

ps ... while BLO was commonly used, I believe that the US switched to tung oil during WWII ... I don't recall the details, but I do know that BLO is not the ONLY finish (although it is the only one I use!).
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Post by papabear »

The military never used tung oil [RTO] raw tung oil or [BLO] boiled linseed oil] on their rifle stocks before, or during WWII. US military manuals and Tech orders specifically prescribed [RLO] Raw Linseed Oil for stock maintenance. It is very hard to even find RLO, raw linseed oil today. Most re-finishers of WWII rifle stocks do use BLO today to get a finish that looks like the WWII finish, no stains were used on the WWII US rifle stocks just [RLO] raw linseed oil to seal the wood.

For what its worth, I use a recipe of 1/3 BLO, 1/3 turpentine, and 1/3 melted beeswax, rubbed into the stock, let dry, buff with a dry soft cloth and repeat the process at least two more times, just my TCW

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Post by normsutton »

papabear

You are correct
linseed oil is not the same as boiled linseed oil ,boiled linseed oil has more varnish in it and doesn't penetrate the wood like just linseed oil does haven't found a place that sells just linseed oil

about 20 years ago they changed Tung oil too so it doesn't penetrate the wood as good as it used to ether to much varnish in it too,
I found a place that sells raw Tung oil and a raw dark Tung oil and that's what I use a 50 / 50 mix of dark raw Tung oil and BLO
just got a can of sc JOHNSON PASTE WAX I forgotten we use to use that on wood in wood shop when I was 15 ,abwehr and I discussing stock waxes and I then remembered JOHNSON PASTE WAX and he told me he had been using it for years so I thought I'd give it a try

NORM

PS

for raw linseed oil try
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... ne=adwords!6456&keyword=linseed+oil&match_type=
Last edited by normsutton on July 30th, 2007, 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by papabear »

Norm,

Yelp, I have to agree about Johnson Paste Wax, I use it on military stocks that I don't strip, I use a purple de-greaser to get as much oil out of the stock as I can, let dry and use the Johnson Paste Wax to help seal and bring back the finish it a natural look, its a great product and it saves a lot of time on just dirty and oily stocks.

According to the Tech Manual, The procedure was to use small amounts of RLO rubbed in the surface using soft rags. The oil was thus absorbed into the wood with no surface residue thereby producing the typical GI matte finish. However, RLO will darken over time due to oxidization and casual absorption of various gun oils and solvents, when that does happen it enhances authenticity.

I don't mean to or intend to disagree with someone to cause or start a flame, but rather try to keep the facts as they are. There is a lot of hear-say and rumors running around out there about milsurp and all sorts of other topics, and I have been caught up in them myself, but the facts are the facts, and I appreciate it when someone gives me constructive criticism, or explains these things to me, and that is all I was doing here.

I can certainly appreciate something passed down from a father to his children and didn't mean in any way to belittle that. I was given a 1943 Remington Rand 1911A1 .45acp from my father that he carried in WWII as a Flying Tiger in Burma, China and India while flying a B-25 Mitchel. For me, I have left it "as is" because for me I want to leave it as it was given to me in remembrance of him, but that is just me.

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Last edited by papabear on July 30th, 2007, 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by saands »

There's a good page at the CMP site on military finishes: http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/wo ... rticle.htm

Sounds like the multitude of manufacturers makes it a little less than certain which finish was actually used ... although there are certainly some generalities ...

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Post by papabear »

saands,

You point is well made about the CMP article, I was basing my opinion on the original tech manuals for the M1 Carbine which were in fact made by several different manufactures as you suggested, and the issue of what was actually used is at best subjective.

I have had many conversations with the Rock Island Arsenal Museum, they are great people to deal with and they sent me the spec's on the wood finish that the US government required, I also have the tech manuals for the M1 Carbine and M1 Garand, and they called for RLO [raw linseed oil] and that is what I was basing my comments on.

That being said, it is entirely possible that a little bit of everything was used to treat the wood stocks on the M1 Carbine at some time or other, so what ever was used I am sure this subject will probably carry on for some time, but IMHO any of the oils will do a nice job of restoring the stock.

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Note: The M1 Carbine in my signature is a 1944 all Inland parts non-import with a original Case M4 bayonet.
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Post by saands »

That's a sweet one ... I just got my first Carbine (an Inland from the CMP that was recently returned from Italy) and I love it ... the wood was cracked near the bayo lug, though, from a bayo lug that was forced on in spite of one of the tabs not being folded over enough. I got some of the new CMP walnut, though, and it is a keeper! I'm gonna have to do some fancy talkin to convince the wife that we need an IBM, too, though ...

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Post by papabear »

Saands,

I understand the M1 Carbines from CMP at the price they were asking were pretty decent one's. I've had mine for several years, found it in a Army-Navy Store in Springfield, Illinois back when nobody really wanted them, I had to talk my wife into letting me have it for $230,OTD, I have turned down $900 for it. Even the sling is original, its dated to the bbl, 1944, it is supposed to be a bring-back so no import marks, and at 100 yrds its pretty accurate. We were shooting it last month and hanging orange clay pigeons on tree limbs at roughly 100 yrds and I was hitting 6-8 with a 15 rd mag. A lot of collectors don't shoot their guns, but I won't own a handgun or a rifle unless I can shoot it. Now if its a really nice piece, I might not shoot it much but but I will shoot it.

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Post by anjdrifter »

Hey Papabear I didnt know they made shotshells for the m1 ::)


Quote 100yrds and I was hitting 6-8 with a 15 rd magQuote
Sorry old old buddy couldnt resist. your old old buddy al
thanks for the call it helped..
Last edited by anjdrifter on July 31st, 2007, 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by papabear »

Hey Papabear I didnt know they made shotshells for the m1 ::)


Quote 100yrds and I was hitting 6-8 with a 15 rd magQuote
Sorry old old buddy couldnt resist. your old old buddy al
thanks for the call it helped..
;D ;D ;D I didn't know they made shot shells that shot that far, but if they do I want some, then the FAA will be getting more calls.

Hey, it helped the me to......thanks buddy 8-)

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Post by saands »

I think that the CMP lot, in general, were well cared for by the Italians. From what I saw on the CMP forum, the metal was almost always really nice but there was an element of luck in how good the wood was. I saw some that looked PRISTINE as received ... I struck out on my wood, but $100 took complete care of that.

I hate it when people offer me lots of cash for something ... when I turn them down, I end up feeling like their offer is now what I paid for it. Too rational sometimes for my own good!

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