C&R question

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volfandan
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C&R question

Post by volfandan »

OK fellas, I know that several of you have a C&R license. I am thinking about applying for one, and have a few questions:

1. So if I'm into old shotguns and rifles, such as Winchesters and Brownings....does that mean as long as the serial # states that it was made prior to 1956 that I can use my C&R to obtain it?

2. What about M1 Garands and M1 carbines? Do they work as well?

3. If a company (or companies) still manufacture a design of the firearm....does that make it ineligible? For example, I can't use it to purchase a Kimber 1911.....but would a WW2 Singer 1911 be eligible?

Thanks fellas!
carguy
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C&R question

Post by carguy »

YES!
carguy
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C&R question

Post by carguy »

I couldn't resist that last post.

Yes to all 3 questions.

C&R weapons are those specifically listed by the ATF on their "list".

AND

Weapons 50 years or more in age. You are correct, the Kimber is not C&R as it is a 1911 design but not a 1911.

AND

Many firearms considered to have "Collectible" value not just due to their age...many modern limited edition commoratives are on the ATFs list as well. Now these are usually true collectibles and not something one would shoot but can be purchased via C&R FFL.

There are many questions, answers and directions on www.surplusrifle.com that may help you out. And if you use the search function possibly here and definitely on gunboards.com.

Not to mention additional discounts offered by many suppliers like Brownells and Midway when ordering cleaning or reloading supplies and the like.

Good luck, have fun and be prepared to spend more than you can ever imagine!! 8~) Once you start you just can't stop!
volfandan
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C&R question

Post by volfandan »

"Once you start you just can't stop!" - Carguy

This is what I'm afraid of (evil grin)
devlinfaust
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C&R question

Post by devlinfaust »

I haven't seen a whole bunch of shotguns that are actually available as C & R, but it is flat-out amazing what they list from time to time. The mosin-nagant rifles for virtually nothing, the CZ-52 pistols for virtually nothing, not to mention the CZ-82 which is a modern pistol, as far as I'm concerned.

For $30 you can't beat it, but of course, they do want you to keep good records of your acquistions and what happens to them.

And yes, it is totally addictive!
rlj102468
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C&R question

Post by rlj102468 »

You can get on SOG's mialing list and they will send out a catalog and list all C&R's they have to sell.
Bobby J.
saands
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C&R question

Post by saands »

There are some caveats to the "Yes" answer you got on the 50 plus year rule. BATFE in all other matters uses the age of the reciever to determine the age of the firearm ... for example ... in the winter of 1939 several Russian soldiers (500,000 to be fair) carried Mosin-Nagant rifles to Finland where they dropped them on one of many battlefields. The Finns then collected them and rebuilt them for their own use with nicer barrels and workmanship. Those rebuilds are the M39's that we can buy. If the receiver was a pre-1899, then those rifles are considered antiques and are exempt from the GCA and can be shipped and sold across state lines as though they were lamps or shoes. That is because even though the rifle is clearly stamped 1943 or whatever year they re-built it, the receiver IS the firearm and it is an antique.

Now following that logic, my 1943 Turk mauser is C&R, right? Wrong!!! Since I took the 8x57 barrel off and put a 243win barrel on it, it is now NOT a C&R according to the BATFE ... somehow they get to make up the rules as they go along and "stare decisis" doesn't seem to apply.

My only point is that for firearms in their original configuration, the rules seem pretty clear, but if there have been mods made, then all bets are off ... I've heard that the Tokarev pistols that are 50+years old from Romania are NOT C&R because the BATFE made them add a safety to the pistol for import and that now they aren't in their original configuration ... so no C&R.

Nobody mentioned the great price breaks you get at MidwayUSA and Brownells, though ... the 03FFL is a great deal in spite of the issues.

Many firearms that are not 50 years old are on the list ... SKS's and the aforementioned CZ-82 are good examples ...

Saands
carguy
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C&R question

Post by carguy »

Good catch saands, I forgot to mention "in their original configuration". Many distributors sell "sporterized" versions of the Mosin but they are not C&R as they have been placed on modern stocks. The TT-33 just pisses me off that damn safety addition!! Be careful, some sellers claim something like the TT-33 is indeed C&R. If you buy it they are at fault and liable but if somehow you are audtied etc. you may be in trouble as well.

That is another consideration though I know of no one that this has happened to, you are charged with record keeping of your C&R purchases and sales as well as liable for an audit of those records by the ATF. I can't imagine that happening unless you are selling C&Rs as a business or somehow illegally.

Definitely worth the investment and allows for some fun shooting/collecting that you may not have done or even known about without it.

Go for it...it just isn't fair that you let us other C&R holders have all the fun and spend all of our money...we sure would love ther company!!
abwehr
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C&R question

Post by abwehr »

volfandan,

All the above information is good! The C&R is a great tool for collectors, but another thing you have to understand about some (few, but some) dealers is they will not accept a C&R even for a legitinate C&R weapon. Most of these dealers are your local ones. They will still require you to fill out the paperwork and have the background check. The reason, they DON'T know the laws. There is a dealer in Greenville, SC that has decent pricing on what he sells. I had bought a number of firearms from him with my C&R and all of a sudden they would not accept it anymore. They don't get my business anymore either. If a dealer will not accept the C&R there is nothing you can do; they have the legal right to not accept it. It does not happen much, but it does happen.
anjdrifter
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C&R question

Post by anjdrifter »

that does happen very rarely. had it happen recently in New Castle Del. at Shop. Bottom line I didnt buy the gun.If a guy diesnt know or care enough to kow the laws to me that is indicative of his business or abilities.
saands
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C&R question

Post by saands »

Abwehr:

If the Greenville shop (which one by the way?) won't take it, just hop over to Blue Ridge Shooting Sports over in Greer ... Steve is a GREAT guy to work with. I'm pretty sure the street address is 104 Hunt St ... but it has been a while since I lived there. I miss that place. He might even have some P64's

Saands
abwehr
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C&R question

Post by abwehr »

saands,

Thanks for the info on Blue Ridge Shooting Sports! I have never heard of them before. but I will give them a try!

The shop that would not accept my C&R is Traders Gunshop, Taylors, SC (a part of Greenville, SC). Their prices are reasonable, but only one guy there is friendly. Another shop I check out frequently is ATP Gunshop in Summerville, SC. They are the friendliest bunch I have ever seen, but their prices are on the high side. Usually, the firearms I have bought from them were "negotiated" a little to make the final cost a little better. A couple of months ago, I bought a mismatched, E. German Luger from them for $500. When I got it cleaned up, I was surprised and well pleased with the deal. Once I buy something, I don't complain to myself for paying the prices; I did have a choice to buy or not. Gunshop folks that are rude will not get my business!
drogers
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C&R question

Post by drogers »

Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof are C&R .
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/intro.htm
saands
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C&R question

Post by saands »

I know Traders ... I found their prices to be hit or miss ... but they have a pretty good inventory ... better than Blue Ridge, but BRSS's changes a lot and they don't mind ordering for you at pretty reasonable prices/markups. All the guys at BRSS are friendly, so I used to drive right past Trader's on my way there ... only rarely stopped to see what was what at Traders. There is also a good deal from time to time at the little pawn shop across the street from the Cherrydale shopping center ... Pleasantburg Gun and Pawn (502 E Blue Ridge Dr) ... pretty limited inventory, but good (and negotiable) prices. The guy that runs it is pretty friendly.

Saands
abwehr
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C&R question

Post by abwehr »

saands,

When I have the time, I am definetly going to visit BRSS and get to know the folks. When I need a non C&R item, I have been going to Simpsonville Gun & Pawn. The owner, Mike is a really nice guy and will do transfers for $20. The $20 is for any number of rifles or pistols as long as he get them on the same Form. He will also order anything I need for a decent markup.

It is just a shame Traders is not a little more friendly because you are right, they do have a nice inventory of firearms. I have heard from a friend of mine that there is a very nice, friendly, and resonably priced gun shop in Anderson on Pearman Dairy Road, just up from the Ryobi Plant. Have not been there yet either! I am trying to stay with the C&R items, but I keep reading all the reports on the Armalite AR-24 pistol made in Turkey for Armalite and I want one. It is designed very similar to the CZ-75B and supposed to have quality workmanship as directed by Armalite. I have a CZ-75B Military in 9mmP and I love the way the slide mates to the frame as it makes the pistol very accurate. I just bought a M-N M44 with laminated stock from Centerfire Systems a few minuets ago, but I will post info on a new post. Can't stay away from good deals!
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