'68 P64 9x18 new trigger guard pin too big

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edmundjc
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'68 P64 9x18 new trigger guard pin too big

Post by edmundjc »

So while firing at the range, the trigger guard pin broke. I was able to retrieve all pieces, including both pin halves. No big deal, I ordered a new pin from a seller on Gunbroker. The pin I received is in fact too big around. I figured there'd be a little interference in order to make it stay put, so I supported the gun and tried tapping it in. No dice. So I grabbed my caliper and measured the old pin and the new pin. The old pin was exactly 2.54mm (0.1 in), but the new pin was 3mm (both are the same length). Setting them side-by-side the difference in thickness is notable. I'm not spotting any place on any of the listings that might indicate distinct sizes between pins, but I'm also pretty sure that the size difference it not due to wear on the old pin.

Was I sent the wrong pin? Are there more than 2 types of pins? (mine is the 'barbell' shape, and that's what I got in the mail) If I went and got some 12 gauge steel stock (just about perfect size) and peened the ends slightly would that suffice?

I'm travelling in a couple weeks and I'd really like to be able to take this pistol with me. Other than this problem, I've absolutely loved it.
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Re: '68 P64 9x18 new trigger guard pin too big

Post by robhic »

There's a specific technique to install (and remove) that pin. Just hammering it ain't it! You might search for the post by NORM SUTTON about how to do it using a vice. That might fix your problem....
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SkippySanchez
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Re: '68 P64 9x18 new trigger guard pin too big

Post by SkippySanchez »

Don't want to hijack the thread here, but I noticed after shooting yesterday my trigger guard pin had almost worked it's way out. I've only had the gun for a few months -- maybe 150 rounds through it since I've had it -- and this was the first time I'd seen it work its way out. I was able to press it back in with the flat edge of a screwdriver when I got home with no problem.

I'll be keeping an eye on it from here on when shooting but wondering if this is common or could the pin be worn? I shoot outdoors most of the time and I would have never found it if it had come all the way out.
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chestertnted
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Re: '68 P64 9x18 new trigger guard pin too big

Post by chestertnted »

This happened to me as well. Pushed it back, and keep an eye on it.

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edmundjc
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Re: '68 P64 9x18 new trigger guard pin too big

Post by edmundjc »

I had the same situation with the pin working its way out only a couple weeks before the actual breakage happened. It's possible the pin was weakened by this, though it was caught right away and re-inserted.

The more I look at this the more I believe I received the wrong pin. There really is no way that the 0.119" pin is going to fit in the 0.1" hole. Plus, the pin wouldn't fit through the trigger hinge hole itself either, independent of the pistol frame. Regarding the vice trick in Norm Sutton's post, aligning the trigger with the frame was not the issue, since I wasn't even able to start the pin into the frame.

Problem (mostly? temporarily?) solved though. I grabbed a 3/32" x 1/2" tension pin from the local hardware store. Since 3.32" is just shy of 0.1" I had to spread the pin out slightly, but I was able to get it to the point where it took a fair bit of effort to press it in. Lengthwise it is a perfect fit.

Image

Of course the tension pin does not have the 'barbell' shape to it, so the spring pressure will not act as a means of holding it in place, and this brings me to my main concern. Because the tension pin is straight rather than thinner in the middle, the trigger guard is more rigidly held in place. This seems like a good situation, except that the trigger guard is the takedown, and presumably takes a bit of a beating from the slide. I'm not sure how much space is typically between the takedown and the frame (at the top of the trigger guard) but as you can see in the picture, it's sitting at a noticeable distance. I'm pretty sure it didn't snug up to the frame before, but I expect the space is bigger now.

Image

I'm not sure how much of an impact it receives from the slide with each round (the little thing can kick pretty hard), but I'll definitely be keeping an eye on it for the next several magazines. I'll probably take the pin out from time-to-time as well to see if it's trying to shear. I'll report back once I've run it through some paces.

If this works, it's a super cheap fix with readily available stuff. If it only kinda works, and the pin wears out quickly, it's not hard to replace it on a regular schedule.

[edit] I'll see how this goes, but in the meantime, if anybody can point me to a vendor (or listing?) that can with relative confidence send me the correct pin, I'd appreciate it. I suppose it's also possible I have a pistol with a non-standard pin hole, so if anybody knows offhand what the actual outside diameter of the pin should be, or if you're willing to extract yours and take a measurement, I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks!

[edit edit] The guard hinges nicely. I believe the hole in the trigger guard is slightly bigger than the holes in the frame. The pin does not pivot in the frame as you open the guard.
edmundjc
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Re: '68 P64 9x18 new trigger guard pin too big

Post by edmundjc »

So I took it to the range, and after only 2 magazines the friction pin I was trying started working its way out. Can anybody verify what the outside diameter of the trigger guard should be (mine is a '68 model)? My old broken pin is 0.1" or 2.54mm. The pin I was sent for replacement is 3mm OD. Trying to figure out if I have a nonstandard gun or the wrong pin.
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Re: '68 P64 9x18 new trigger guard pin too big

Post by robhic »

Just a thought: do you think you could CAREFULLY hit (maybe more like tap) the ends with a small pin/center punch just enough to expand the ends of the new pin to keep it seated? I might try locking it with blue LocTite but the jolting would probably be better, IMO, being hit with the punch.
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JeffG
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Re: '68 P64 9x18 new trigger guard pin too big

Post by JeffG »

Depending on whether or not it is a hardened steel pin, you may be able to chuck it in a drill and put a sharpening stone to it and work it down to a more appropriate size, then reverse in the drill and repeat.
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edmundjc
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Re: '68 P64 9x18 new trigger guard pin too big

Post by edmundjc »

I bought a length of 10 gauge steel rod and chucked it in my mill, thinking I could use a sharpening stone on the base to effectively build a new pin. No dice. I need a lathe.

But what I did do was take the friction pin (in the picture) and flare the outsides of it with a pair of punches, at robhic's suggestion. Basically sandwiched the pin (while in the gun. This took 2 people) between the punches, setting the one punch on the mill base, and tapped the other with a hammer. After reversing and repeating this a few times it was obvious that the pin had flared enough to properly fill the pistol frame hole. Stepped out back to the range and ran 6 magazines through it with no problems. The pin stayed put. So it seems the issue is solved, at least for long enough for me to track down the correct pin.

Thanks for the suggestions, folks.
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chestertnted
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Re: '68 P64 9x18 new trigger guard pin too big

Post by chestertnted »

Fantastic! Admire the effort! But....what could Joe blow do!.. I assume a gunsmith would charge a pretty penny!

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Re: '68 P64 9x18 new trigger guard pin too big

Post by robhic »

I'm glad my suggestion was useful for you. I don't always hit a homerun! :mrgreen: Good job, sounds like you have a useable pistol until another pin can be obtained.
- Robert

"Giving Money and Power to Government is Like Giving Whiskey and Car Keys to Teenage Boys" - PJ O'Rourke
edmundjc
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Re: '68 P64 9x18 new trigger guard pin too big

Post by edmundjc »

Update: For another few boxes of ammo I checked the pin and reset it if necessary between each shot (as it again started to work its way out slightly). After about 200 rounds now it now seems to be staying put completely. I can tell the pin is absorbing a good amount of impact from the slide (still a little worried about this), as the pin is slightly 'buckled' in on itself, though it seems this deformation is what is now keeping it in place.

I'll continue to cautiously use it and hopefully it stays together while I search for the correct pin.
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Curly1
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Re: '68 P64 9x18 new trigger guard pin too big

Post by Curly1 »

Will be interesting to see how this holds up over time, thanx for the update.
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edmundjc
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Re: '68 P64 9x18 new trigger guard pin too big

Post by edmundjc »

Man, it took me 9 months to finally fix this. The friction pin began working its way out with regularity. Only took 3 or 4 rounds to slip out, almost to the point of ejecting, risking flinging trigger guard and spring into parts unknown. Spoke with a few local gunsmiths, and they weren't really able to help. I finally decided to just widen the holes to fit what I'm now convinced is the standard-sized P64 trigger guard pin, at 3mm. I was able to find a precision drill bit set ranging from 2mm to 3mm in 0.1mm increments. Long shank, short flutes, all fit in my 1/8" collet, ideal. This was also nice, because I could use the 2.6mm bit to center the mill on the hole, then switch to the 3mm for the drilling.

Because the material on the frame around the pin is already kinda sparse, I centered the mill on the hole, then moved it 0.23mm toward the hammer (the difference in radius between the old pin and the new one) as to leave as much material as possible. I drilled it all out, and the new pin fit like a charm. To tell you the truth, the toughest part about the whole thing was getting that stupid spring and ... whatever it's called ... back in under the trigger guard before inserting the pin. What a pain.

But it's all back together and looking great. I took a punch and tried driving the pin out, and it stayed exactly where it belonged. I think having the holes freshly milled plus adding the new pin managed to square up all the worn edges, and its retention is as good as new. Stepped out back of the shop and squeezed off several magazines. Works like a champ. Happy to have my favorite pistol back in service, and I'm much more confident with this fix than the flared friction pin.

Image

Edit: Now it's time for a hardwood grip :D
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chestertnted
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Re: '68 P64 9x18 new trigger guard pin too big

Post by chestertnted »

Great job, and thank you for sharing

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