Put This In Ammo But Thought It Interesting In General Way

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robhic
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Put This In Ammo But Thought It Interesting In General Way

Post by robhic »

I have 2 P-64's that were having double-feed jamming issues. I disassembled and cleaned the 4 mags, polished the inside of the chamber and feed ramp, made sure pistols were clean and lubed and went to the range today. Brought some Silver Bear and Wolf WPA ammo with me.

Started with the SB and jamming started. :( Also had out of battery problems this time with one pistol, too. Ouch! Changed the 18# (new) recoil spring in that one with a 20# spring. Seemed to help but jamming still across all 4 magazines in both pistols and SB ammo.

Decided to try the WPA (these two ammos are same except for the color - more-or-less - 95gr JRN) and problems stopped! No jams. Who'd think zinc-coated lacquered and grey-colored lacquered ammo of same steel-cased spec & type could do this? I guess I'll just use WPA in the future, just in case.
- Robert

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Ketchman
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Re: Put This In Ammo But Thought It Interesting In General W

Post by Ketchman »

That is wierd. I am not sure the Silver Bear has a laquer coat over the zinc as the case is zinc coated to make for smoother feeding. I have no answer as to why this would be. How old is the Silver Bear? Has the zinc corroded any as that would cause the case surface to be rougher which might cause FTE's. I know my Moisins sometimes get a laquer buildup in the chamber that needs to be cleaned out. When that happens they chamber and extract hard. If that is the case I can tell you how to do that.
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snailman153624
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Post by snailman153624 »

That, or his SB ammo is defective (maybe slightly out of spec).
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herr mario
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Re: Put This In Ammo But Thought It Interesting In General W

Post by herr mario »

...hmmm...weird.....all I have shot thru my P64 has been Silver Bear so far and have had zero problems...
...typical bitter clinger...
spareparts
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Post by spareparts »

Pretty much set on using wolf exclusively in mine...
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Curly1
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Post by Curly1 »

I have had no problems with SB.
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robhic
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Re: Put This In Ammo But Thought It Interesting In General W

Post by robhic »

Ketchman wrote:That is wierd. I am not sure the Silver Bear has a laquer coat over the zinc as the case is zinc coated to make for smoother feeding. I have no answer as to why this would be. How old is the Silver Bear? ...
Ammo is about 6 weeks old kept in a plastic dry-box. I think you're right about the zinc plating not having (nor needing) a lacquer coating over it like the WPA does. And it had worked fine in other P-64s I own. These guns are for a friend and I don't want to give them back to him until they're "right." One did better with the SB than the other but still ... As far as clean goes, I polished out the chamber and feed ramp with auto polishing compound and also had done the chamber area with a brass wire brush before the polish. Again, these 2 pistols are the only ones that ever gave even a hiccup with the SB ammo and that's what's puzzling me. And if it is defective (won't rule anything out) I didn't see it in other pistols that I hadn't even taken such pains to clean as I did these because they are for a friend as a favor.
- Robert

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Ketchman
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Re: Put This In Ammo But Thought It Interesting In General W

Post by Ketchman »

Check the feed lips on the mags. Maybe they are not angled correctly or pinched a bit causing too much friction?
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robhic
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Re: Put This In Ammo But Thought It Interesting In General W

Post by robhic »

Ketchman wrote:Check the feed lips on the mags. Maybe they are not angled correctly or pinched a bit causing too much friction?
Already did the mags (all 4). I disassembled them, scrubbed with a .22 brass bore brush and coated the insides with EEZOX dry lube. Let 'em sit for a day, re-assembled and checked the lips. They were straight and I ran a miniature flat file under the lips just to be sure they were smooth. Cleanest these mags have been since 1975 (vintage of guns). I'm just gonna tell my boy to use the WOLF WPA ammo. It's cheaper, anyway by 13¢ a box of 50. :mrgreen:
- Robert

"Giving Money and Power to Government is Like Giving Whiskey and Car Keys to Teenage Boys" - PJ O'Rourke
Ketchman
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Re: Put This In Ammo But Thought It Interesting In General W

Post by Ketchman »

It was just a thought. If it was me it would drive me nuts why Silver Bear won't feed but WPA will. Like you said basically the same round. But then again, that may be a rather short trip according to some.
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robhic
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Re: Put This In Ammo But Thought It Interesting In General W

Post by robhic »

Ketchman wrote:It was just a thought. If it was me it would drive me nuts why Silver Bear won't feed but WPA will. Like you said basically the same round. But then again, that may be a rather short trip according to some.
Oh yeah, I know what you mean. That little thing you just can't figure out! This guy is an "almost" collector and has many guns. I doubt he'll shoot this one much after I give it to him (in about an hour or so....) and he gets home. I'm giving him a box of Wolf WPA and telling him to use that. Maybe (MAYBE!) if he shoots it some, after a while it'll 'break-in' and other ammo will work. Who knows? If not, I'll take it and play with it some more.
- Robert

"Giving Money and Power to Government is Like Giving Whiskey and Car Keys to Teenage Boys" - PJ O'Rourke
robhic
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Re: Put This In Ammo But Thought It Interesting In General W

Post by robhic »

Just a point: Silver Bear and Wolf WPA Ammo are exactly the same ballistics at 94gr JRN with a steel case. The SB is zinc plated with NO lacquer coating. The WPA has NO lacquer coating either :shock: because it was stopped years ago in favor of "polyformance" coating which is some sort of polymer. Just thought I'd share this because I thought lacquer coating was standard. I have some grey-colored 9 and 45 TULAmmo in my practice stash that I'm guessing isn't lacquered either. So ... looks like the Russkies have abandoned the lacquer for some kind of polymer coating for the less expensive ammo. I've been schooled and now you have been, too! :mrgreen:
- Robert

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Re: Put This In Ammo But Thought It Interesting In General W

Post by Ketchman »

robhic, I knew they had stopped coating the cases with lacquer a couple of years back but they still use it on the primer pockets and around the casing mouth / bullet interface for waterproofing reasons, I believe but may be wrong, so there is still a small amount of lacquer left. However, that small amount should not be enough to gum up chambers, but there are some of us who bought quantities of the older lacquer coated stuff and still have some of it so for us it is still something to watch out for.
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robhic
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Re: Put This In Ammo But Thought It Interesting In General W

Post by robhic »

Ketchman wrote:robhic, I knew they had stopped coating the cases with lacquer a couple of years back but they still use it on the primer pockets and around the casing mouth / bullet interface for waterproofing reasons ... so there is still a small amount of lacquer left. However, that small amount should not be enough to gum up chambers, but there are some of us who bought quantities of the older lacquer coated stuff and still have some of it so for us it is still something to watch out for.
Yeah, I'd agree with that. As I stated, I have some TULAmmo in 9mm left (and had some in 45acp) for range use only. I, too, may have some of the older lacquered stuff. I believe I bought the stuff I still have around 3 years ago. Never had a bit of problems with it, lacquered or not. And at least it's good that you are aware and can take steps to watch for it.
- Robert

"Giving Money and Power to Government is Like Giving Whiskey and Car Keys to Teenage Boys" - PJ O'Rourke
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Re: Put This In Ammo But Thought It Interesting In General W

Post by Paulnola »

I haven't tried the Silver Bear yet but my P-64 eats Brown Bear like a champ. Shot around 2000 rounds with no jams or malfunctions. Occasionally there is a round with a hard primer but I treat it like a revolver and pull the trigger again, which usually fires.
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