New Member - Range Troubles with P64

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john9square
Posts: 9
Joined: October 22nd, 2014, 5:35 pm

New Member - Range Troubles with P64

Post by john9square »

Ok, so this is really embarrassing to admit. But I'm having a lot of trouble with accuracy on my "new" used P64 Radom.

I've put 70 rounds through it. Yeah, the double pull is awful. The single pull not so much. I'm even ok with the recoil so far with the stock springs that came with the gun.

But, to be blunt, I cannot hit the broad side of a barn with this gun. Today, I finally put 6 rounds on paper out of 20 at 7 yrds. God only know where the rest went. I don't think I'm limp wristing at all. My form seems good to me, hard/firm grip, focusing on trigger squeeze and follow through, etc.. Folks, I'm totally serious here. I'm shooting, and I have complete control of the gun at all times and firm grip, etc.. The gun is not jumping out of my hand, I think I'm on target and I am totally missing the paper.

The sights are a little tough to pickup on for me, but I cannot believe they are that bad or my eyes are either.

So far I've put the following ammo through my P64:

50 rounds - Winchester 9x18 95 grain FMJ

20 rounds - Buffalo Bore 95 grain JHP +p

I shot the best with the JHP +P, go figure. This was what I got on paper with. And to me, there is a noticable difference in recoil with the +P also.

Anyone have any thoughts? Could I be having some kind of cross dominance thing going on here? I keep doing dominant eye tests and I'm still right eye dominant. I'm closing my off eye, just to make sure, and it doesn't make any difference.

This is really weird, and would appreciate any help or thoughts anyone might have. Anyone else had trouble with their P64 right out of the gate?
taroman
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Joined: October 24th, 2014, 9:48 pm

Re: New Member - Range Troubles with P64

Post by taroman »

First, have someone else shoot it.
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Curly1
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Re: New Member - Range Troubles with P64

Post by Curly1 »

I would move up closer and see what it does.
Laugh Hard and Often.

Gary
Domingo
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Joined: November 7th, 2014, 8:09 am

Re: New Member - Range Troubles with P64

Post by Domingo »

I recently ordered a P64 from AIM and was pleasantly surprised. After reading the online reviews, looking at video comments, and reading some other publications I was somewhat hesitant. First, the P64 sent to me was made in 1968 and I wonder if it had even been fired. The exterior and interior parts were clean and like new. I could find no trace of gunpowder residue. As for accuracy, I found it to be much more accurate than the Nagant Revolver or Tokarev and was able to consistently group shots around center target. The trigger pull was perfect. The recoil was manageable, actually more manageable than the Tokarev as the P64 is much smaller and so it is easier to control. The only negative (hey, I have to find something) is that the magazine release became a little difficult after awhile, but it just may need some more oil on it. Overall, it was fun to shoot and I did not experience the issues that others have encountered.
wlockridge
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Location: North Benton Ohio

Re: New Member - Range Troubles with P64

Post by wlockridge »

John9square,
Here is a thought that may help with your aim. Forget the sights. At a 20 foot distance you should be able to just point and shoot. As hard as a sight picture is to acquire on these weapons, in a gunfight you would be dead. These guns are dead accurate but, because of the grips and relatively small butt, it's extremely difficult to maintain a proper grip even though you think that you are.
When I bought my custom Marshal grips my accuracy improved 100%. The weapon was originally sighted in at 50 feet from the factory as I recall :o . My wife was having the same issue as you and she thought she was maintaining a proper grip so I took a video of her firing the weapon for her to study in slow motion. It was a big help to her. When I was on the police department I would tape a small laser to the top of my barrel and practice just pointing it at various things while watching TV (A SAFE WEAPON I MIGHT ADD). After awhile it just came natural. Give the video a try, I think you'll be really surprised.
As far as the heavy DA trigger pull, I changed out the hammer spring to the Wolf 18# spring and the recoil spring is 20#. It works well for me. The thing that helped the DA pull the most was that I used LUCAS assembly lube on all moving parts the first 20 or so times that I cleaned it, which I do every time I shoot it. No grinding or polishing required. It contains zink, moly, and other additives that bond with the metal. Now my DA pull is just a little stiffer than a standard 38 special. You can purchase it at about any auto parts store.
I hope this helps. Just be patient with the DA pull, it will loosen up, these really are fine, well made weapons they just need to be broken in as I doubt half of them were ever fired. And welcome to the group.
Bill
Shoot first, Shoot straight, and hit what you're aiming at, if you can do these things and have six rounds of ammo, you'll have two thirds more than you need to prevail.
john9square
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Joined: October 22nd, 2014, 5:35 pm

Re: New Member - Range Troubles with P64

Post by john9square »

Hey Bill. Thanks so much for the reply. So I'm just wondering about the factory sighting on these. 50ft = 16.7 yards. I'm shooting at 7yrds at my range. Sounds like maybe I'm shooting high when using the sights then?

I changed the springs to a new set of Wolf 18# hammer and 20# recoil. I'm really not too hung up on the DA pull, just trying to shoot in SA for now. Trigger is much nicer with the 18# hammer. Felt to me like the recoil went up a bit, but maybe I was expecting too much from the recoil spring change. I thought it would go down.

I'll try the LUCAS lube you mentioned also.

I think I'll try your idea of just pointing and shooting next time at the range and see how that does for me. The laser idea sounds like a good idea also. I have a laser bore sight I could probably use for this also, to do the safe gun aiming drill you described. Might give that a whirl.

Can you tell me what your wife was doing with her grip and what she saw on video? I might have a friend shoot some video of me also to see if I can find anything.

Thanks again for the comments.
wlockridge
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Re: New Member - Range Troubles with P64

Post by wlockridge »

I too found that at 20 feet I was shooting quite a bit high when using the sight picture. As a retired police officer we were trained not to use the sights in close quarters combat anyway so for me it was a natural transition. Once I learned of the specifications of the weapon I was able to shoot 3 inch groups at 50 feet without much problem at all.
My wife thought she had a good, firm grip but, she never failed to get slide bite on just about whatever she was shooting so I knew better. Shooting the HD video and then playing it back in super slow mode she was able to see not only the amount of muzzle climb but the reaction of her upper body clear through to her shoulders. It helped her to get over her belief that she was properly controlling the weapon when in fact, in one particular frame, I was able to point out to her that she had, in fact, nearly lost control of the weapon altogether. Marksmanship is a martial art and, as such, about 80% of it takes place in the mind. It helps to see what is ACTUALLY going on as opposed to what you THINK is going on. Then you can make adjustments accordingly. Seeing really is believing.Hope this helps and stay safe.
Bill
Shoot first, Shoot straight, and hit what you're aiming at, if you can do these things and have six rounds of ammo, you'll have two thirds more than you need to prevail.
MakAttack
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Re: New Member - Range Troubles with P64

Post by MakAttack »

1. Houge handall over the grip (best $7 you'll spend on the P-64).
2. When going for accuracy, focus on the front sight while slowwwly pressing the trigger. Don't let the front sight move off the target. I can consistently hit beer bottles at 40 feet with mine using this method. Do lots of this with a snap cap at home before going to the range.
3. If all else fails get a CO2 BB pistol and practice, practice practice. Umarex even makes a PM (Makarov) replica ($60). It really helped me to stop anticipating the recoil.
john9square
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Joined: October 22nd, 2014, 5:35 pm

Re: New Member - Range Troubles with P64

Post by john9square »

Thanks, MakAttack. Really appreciate the advice.

Yep, I already got a Houge sleeve on it and really like it.

Between you and Bill (wlockridge) I've got a lot of good ideas on how to fix what ails me. I really think its a combination of the small grip and recoil thats got me wacked up here. So, will try the suggestions on dry fire practice and trigger discipline to see if I can improve things.

Much appreciated guys. I need to get to work.

I do really like this little gun, its a lot of fun to shoot and I think it will be a great carry gun if and when the time comes.

-John
john9square
Posts: 9
Joined: October 22nd, 2014, 5:35 pm

Re: New Member - Range Troubles with P64

Post by john9square »

Hey all. Thought I'd report in on my P64. I found a couple of things that are helping a lot. Most of this is basic pistol shooting and not at all related to the P64. A lot of you will probably be thinking, what a dummy, but maybe this will help someone else out. Here's what I've found.

1. Thumbs - I found that due to the smaller size of the P64 and grip, my thumbs were a little lost. Inconsistent placement, sometimes just sticking out. I remedied by covering my grip hand thumb with the thumb from my support hand. This feels much more comfortable, more solid grip, and more consistency with grip now also. I like having my trigger hand thumb tuck away. Its feels good. Recoil doesn't seem as bad either with this grip.

2. Trigger - Really focusing on using the pad of the fingertip and using a straight-back pull. Evidently I was getting away with some things on longer barrels (and long rifles), but on the P64 the errors get magnified due to the shorter barrel. I think I was getting way too much trigger finger through the hole, and this was causing a lot of pull off target.

Today's trip to the range was much more successful and satisfying. Its cold and windy here, and my lunchtime visit to the nearby gun range, although a bit brutal, was very good. There were only 2 booths in use, and I was able to get the rangemaster to watch me and give me some pointers. He suggested tucking the thumb and even had me go to more of a modified weaver stance to get more comfortable (strong side foot back slightly instead of an isosceles stance). That felt more comfortable also. BTW, he loved the trigger on my P64 Radom.

Results - everything is hitting paper now. Majority of shots are on rings, including a few in the bull.

I think now its matter of repetition and making sure I'm on my fingertip pad, pulling straight back.

Also interesting finding from last Saturdays trip to a different range to help my boys sight in their deer rifles (and get me a few rounds on target also). A guy there had a couple of different pistols he was shooting, gave me the tip about the fingertip pad, and he let me shoot his Bersa 380 acp and his 1911. The Bersa 380 acp felt identical to the P64 Radom in nearly every way. Same recoil, same grip, same trigger (with the 18# trigger spring and 20# recoil spring). Very interesting to find that out.

Long and short of it - I had fun shooting my P64 Radom! Really enjoyed it for the first time since I received it. It was very comfortable and my accuracy is much better. Now its a matter of repetition, and working on my trigger pull.

Thought I'd share this in case it might help anyone else out.

Another big thank you to all of you for responses and tips.

-John
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