Spring questions

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craig
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Spring questions

Post by craig »

1) If I install a Wolff trigger spring, what affect will that have on the single action trigger pull on my P-64?
I ask this because I really don't want the single action pull to be any lighter than it is already.

2) Should I have a gunsmith do the job (I consider myself to have average mechanical ability)?
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lklawson
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Re: Spring questions

Post by lklawson »

craig wrote:1) If I install a Wolff trigger spring, what affect will that have on the single action trigger pull on my P-64?
I ask this because I really don't want the single action pull to be any lighter than it is already.
The hammer spring? It will proportionately lighten the Single Action pull as well. Some folks have reported that the lightest springs, which also activate the magazine release, are not sufficient to keep the magazine in place and will cause partial "mag drop."
2) Should I have a gunsmith do the job (I consider myself to have average mechanical ability)?
Nah. It's easy enough. Just take it appart inside a gallon sized clear plastic freezer bag to make sure no parts go flying. They usually don't when you're replacing the hammer spring, but an ounce of prevention...

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
The Cheapskate's Guide to Gun Cleaning and Maintenance - "You shouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars on expensive gun cleaning an maintenance products. Find out how to save money with inexpensive alternatives that work just as well."
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craig
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Re: Spring questions

Post by craig »

Hammer spring, hammer spring -you're right , that's what I meant. Anyhow thanks for the feedback, Kirk. I just got back from the range after firing 150 rounds and about 130 of those in DA. Now my question is did my finger just get stronger or did the hammer spring break-in somewhat - because I'm finding the trigger pull to be more manageable.
Also I'm going to hold off on the Wolff Spring due to the fact that my SA pull is already freaky light.
AJA
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Re: Spring questions

Post by AJA »

I just received my P-64 and since the double action pull was so ungodly, I took it down to see why.

1) The trigger pulls back against the hammer spring during a double action pull. the trigger is connected by a bar to a catch at the bottom of the hammer. the spring is supported just behind and higher than this pull point but as you pull, the spring lowers. AT a point, the leverage of the trigger assembly is not as much as the load and thus harder pull.

HOWEVER!

2, ONCE the hammer is back, the spring tension is LOCKED by the sear ( the full tension of whatever pound spring you use is holding a small catch surface on both the hammer and sear) and the hammer spring no longer has a direct effect on the trigger pull.

THUS, if you change the hammer spring you DO NOT change the trigger pull DRAMTICLY (Your reducing the tension against the sear, but it should not be as much of a change as the double action pull) So you are really just pulling a small metal contact on the sear OFF or the matching hammer surface. I am sure there is a mathematical way to calculate the pressure of any force spread out on such a small area, but bottom line is how it feels and performs.

3) Being a blow back action, changing spring tension should be matched with the recoil spring, or so I have read.

My p-64 came out of the box with that light single action pull, but I am going to see what springs will do for the double action, I hear it can be taken down to about 12 - 15 lbs
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Weasel640
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Re: Spring questions

Post by Weasel640 »

AJA wrote:I just received my P-64 and since the double action pull was so ungodly, I took it down to see why...........
I'm not sure where you are getting your information but you are wrong about a few things.

Changing the hammer spring DOES very much reduce the single action as well as double action. So much so that some people will go back up because they don't feel it's safe with such a light single action trigger pull, especially following a double action shot.

Changing the hammer spring does NOT need to be matched by the recoil spring at all. Changing the springs is a personal preference. That is why they sell them in a variety pak. Many people on here prefer to change only one or the other and have had success.

I'm not sure where you are hearing things about reducing the double action but the lowest spring available is the 17lb. Many people have reported that the 17lb is strikes too light and/or causes issues with magazine retention. Again this is where personal preference comes in and is why they sell the variety pak.

There are allot of things that you are making assumptions on. All this information is available in this forum.
Weasel

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lklawson
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Re: Spring questions

Post by lklawson »

A hammer spring can, to some small degree, perceptibly change the felt recoil of a semi-auto handgun. Cocking the hammer, perforce, bleeds off some amount of energy from the recoil impulse. A heavier hammer spring will require more energy to cock and, therefore, will bleed off more energy from the reciprocation of the slide. A lighter hammer spring will bleed off less energy from the reciprocation of the slide and, if one wishes to keep the same "balance" of total spring resistance between both hammer spring and recoil spring, would therefore require a increase in the strength of the recoil spring.

Some people do, in fact, find it desirable, if not necessarily required, to proportionately increase the strength of their recoil spring if they reduce the strength of their hammer spring if only to help reduce the "battering" to the handgun because of increased recoil.

All of that said, in the 3 instances that I have done so, I have not found the reduced strength hammer spring to greatly increase felt recoil. However, at least when I did so with my CZ-70, I did notice a very minor increase in felt recoil. If I had not been warned that it might happen, I would not have paid enough attention to notice it. But the change was there, even though quite small.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
The Cheapskate's Guide to Gun Cleaning and Maintenance - "You shouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars on expensive gun cleaning an maintenance products. Find out how to save money with inexpensive alternatives that work just as well."
snailman153624
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Re: Spring questions

Post by snailman153624 »

Ideal spring will allows the slide to travel back as far as possible, without slamming into the stop (trigger guard). Stiffer doesn't necessarily mean less felt recoil. All of the energy gets bled, even with no spring. Put in an infinitely stiff spring (solid rod), and I assure you there will be more felt recoil than no spring, because with no spring at least some of the energy is lost to friction before it slams into the stop.
gemini1
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Re: Spring questions

Post by gemini1 »

And since the topic is spring, I probably should just ask here, instead of creating a new thread.

Can anyone of you who ordered, or is using the Wolff hammer spring, the length and diameter of the springs?
I'm still on my 9 days wait before I get to bring home my P64, break it down and see whats inside her. I haven't ordered any springs yet. I do have some hammer springs for my S&W 6904. The 18lb spring is about 1.600" long and 0.283" outside diameter.

Im just thinking, instead of ordering ahead, might as well wait till the gun gets home and find out. On the other hand, I'm just itching to shoot this baby as soon as she gets a thorough cleaning.

Also, there was an old thread at ARF.com where someone posted using the springs from a Walther PPK. Anyone tried this?
finloq
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Re: Spring questions

Post by finloq »

I ordered an 18# hammer spring from Wolff and got sent...something. Even they can't figure out which spring they sent me. I have a new one coming. Here is the specs on their 18# P64 hammer spring that they sent me for comparison to what they sent out in error:

Hello

Thank you for your email and recent order. Our P64, 18 lb. hammer spring should measure as follows:

Wire - .039”
End OD - .223”
Body OD/ID - .220” / .142”
Length – 1.56” with 18 coils.

If the spring we sent you does not very close to the above specifications, then we did indeed pack the wrong spring in the package that was sent to you for which we are very sorry. Please let me know after you compare and we can go from there.
gemini1
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Re: Spring questions

Post by gemini1 »

Hey Finloq, thanks for that specs info. my s&w springs are just a coil longer and a tad bigger on the ID/OD, hmm guess I'll wait till I get the pistol and see if it fits.
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