NEED HELP! First Time to the range, Not good

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LantanaTX
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NEED HELP! First Time to the range, Not good

Post by LantanaTX »

Hello,

I took my new P-64 to the range today for the first time and had a lot of issues. I shot 100 rounds. Hammer spring is Wolf 17# recoil is 22#, Mag release is the extended one being sold here on the site. Ammo was Red Army Standard which I have never used before.

The good:

very accurate and easy to keep on target
Felt great in the hand
No problem with slide bite at all
No trigger slap (what exactly is that?)
Recoil not bad at all, easy quick follow up shots.

The Bad:

Shot 16.5 full mags (100 rounds)
Only 1 mag shot all six
FTF once or twice per mag. bullet pointing up with mag released
Mag releasing seemed like the main problem
Would drop the mag on last bullet most of the time. Slide only locked back after last shot about three times
I thought there might be a problem with the mag and the only time I shot all six was when I changed mags, but after that the same issues continued and didn't get much better.

The gun was well cleaned and oiled prior to heading out to the range. I will probably throw the stock springs in it and try again tomorrow, but I like the lighter main spring if I can get this gun to function properly. I had hoped to carry this gun D/A safety off. If I do this with the stock spring and had to use DA in a crisis I am worried where that first shot might go.
manicmechanic
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Re: NEED HELP! First Time to the range, Not good

Post by manicmechanic »

I'd try upping the hammer at least to an 18 and see if the mag drop stops. If not keep going up a pound.
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Re: NEED HELP! First Time to the range, Not good

Post by manicmechanic »

Also make sure your mags are clean too.
Wacousta
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Re: NEED HELP! First Time to the range, Not good

Post by Wacousta »

Are you maybe using post-1972 mags in a pre-1972 pistol?
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LantanaTX
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Re: NEED HELP! First Time to the range, Not good

Post by LantanaTX »

Wacousta wrote:Are you maybe using post-1972 mags in a pre-1972 pistol?
How would I know? Two mags came with the gun. Each mag a serial number and one of them matches the gun.
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Re: NEED HELP! First Time to the range, Not good

Post by Wacousta »

What year is your gun?

I'm new too, but I learned a bit reading here while waiting for my P64 to arrive. My gun is a 1969. It had one serial # matched mag (old style) and one other that turned out to be new style. The new style mags have longer feed lips, when compared to the old style. Compare them and see if they are the same or not.

From what I read here, old mags work in post-1972 guns, but new mags don't work as well in pre-1972 guns. I carefully filed and ground the feed lips back so that my new mag matched my old mag, and it seems to work in the gun.
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LantanaTX
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Re: NEED HELP! First Time to the range, Not good

Post by LantanaTX »

Wacousta wrote:What year is your gun?

I'm new too, but I learned a bit reading here while waiting for my P64 to arrive. My gun is a 1969. It had one serial # matched mag (old style) and one other that turned out to be new style. The new style mags have longer feed lips, when compared to the old style. Compare them and see if they are the same or not.

From what I read here, old mags work in post-1972 guns, but new mags don't work as well in pre-1972 guns. I carefully filed and ground the feed lips back so that my new mag matched my old mag, and it seems to work in the gun.
I have a '72 The feed lips are the same on both mags and like I said above the serial number on one of them matches the gun. The lips seem long, if they were any longer it would be very hard to load them. I just finished cleaning it and am about to change the main/trigger spring back to stock just to see how it operates bone stock. I will then lighten the spring gradually and see how it works. Most of the dropped mags were on the last and second to last round. Sometime on the others. Every time the mag dropped I got a failure to feed with the bullet pointing upward and holding the slide slightly open.
snailman153624
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Re: NEED HELP! First Time to the range, Not good

Post by snailman153624 »

I also highly recommend polishing the feed ramp. I never had problems (not a single time) with a FTF, etc., but hand cycling is a bit smoother.

You also didn't mention the ammo; these pistols eat Silver Bear for lunch.

Also, you can try using some small washers to increase the hammer spring tension (pre-load) a little bit, which should help with the mag drop, but not really make the trigger pull much harder. I've also thought about experimenting with dual-rate springs (two partial springs stacked end to end, with a washer in between to avoid problems) to see if I could get a better balance between SA and DA pull.

The mag drop seems to be causing your FTF anyway, so it seems if you fix that, the other issues will go away.
LantanaTX
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Re: NEED HELP! First Time to the range, Not good

Post by LantanaTX »

snailman153624 wrote:I also highly recommend polishing the feed ramp. I never had problems (not a single time) with a FTF, etc., but hand cycling is a bit smoother.

You also didn't mention the ammo; these pistols eat Silver Bear for lunch.

Also, you can try using some small washers to increase the hammer spring tension (pre-load) a little bit, which should help with the mag drop, but not really make the trigger pull much harder. I've also thought about experimenting with dual-rate springs (two partial springs stacked end to end, with a washer in between to avoid problems) to see if I could get a better balance between SA and DA pull.

The mag drop seems to be causing your FTF anyway, so it seems if you fix that, the other issues will go away.
Thanks, those are some good ideas. For now I have put the stock springs back in. It is very clean, well oiled and everything is tight and smooth. Even the DA feels smoother that when I received it. I am going to try again tomorrow and see how it does. Overall I love the gun! I don't think this gun got much use as the feed ramp was nice evenly blued. It now looks more like polished steel after firing it today. I will probably polish the feed ramp after trying it tomorrow.
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Hurryin' Hoosier
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Re: NEED HELP! First Time to the range, Not good

Post by Hurryin' Hoosier »

I'd also try to pick up some decent ammunition - Sellier & Bellot, RWS/Geco, or Fiocchi.
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LantanaTX
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Re: NEED HELP! First Time to the range, Not good

Post by LantanaTX »

Went to the range today and had much better results. I had no FTF today. Every pull of the trigger went bang With the stock springs in the gun, I went through 4 mags flawlessly. I then decided to switch to the 22# recoil spring which felt better but I had a few full mags that failed to lock the slide back on the last shot and instead dropped the mag. I then went back to the stock recoil spring but still had the same issue a few time. after the sixth shot, the gun was empty, mag had dropped, hammer back and slide closed. I still can't figure out what is going on. I could try better ammo but not sure why this is happening now on only the last round in the mag.
manicmechanic
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Re: NEED HELP! First Time to the range, Not good

Post by manicmechanic »

Is the small washer at bottom of hammer spring still present on your gun? If not without it tension is slightly decreased.
LantanaTX
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Re: NEED HELP! First Time to the range, Not good

Post by LantanaTX »

manicmechanic wrote:Is the small washer at bottom of hammer spring still present on your gun? If not without it tension is slightly decreased.
Yes the small washer is there. Could the extended mag release cause this as it is a little bigger and heavier? This mag drop only on the last round even with the stock springs has me very confused!
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Hurryin' Hoosier
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Re: NEED HELP! First Time to the range, Not good

Post by Hurryin' Hoosier »

I've never tried one of those extended magazine releases (not even handled one of them), but I'd have to wonder.
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wlockridge
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Re: NEED HELP! First Time to the range, Not good

Post by wlockridge »

My recommendation is sort of a conglomerate of above but the suggestions are what I've personally found to work for me. Don't know what kind of horsepower that red army is pushing but I'd be willing to bet that It's not as much as a modern day ammo such as Buffalo Bore, Hornday ect, just guessing as I've never seen the specs. As to the mag falling out it's most likely that 17# hammer spring, had the same issue, go back to the 18# and that should go away. Second is your mags, dissemble them completely and run a cotton ball soaked wit you favourite gun cleaner through the insides several times and them push balled paper towel through them till it comes out nearly clean. then lightly oil another cotton ball and push it through. Make sure that the follower is good and clean and free from any type of burrs that might interfere. if you find any take a emery board to them until smooth. oil and replace. The follower should slide up and down inside the magazine smoothly. Next stretch the mag spring out just a little bit, don't get carried away. Lastly check the lips on top for any kind of bending or cracking.
As far as the recoil spring goes, it's kind of particular to the power of the ammo that you're using. Mine will not fire a CCI Blazer reliably with the 22# spring in place, I have to change to the 20# and it works flawlessly. The reason being that it's just not powerful enough to push the slide ALL the way to the rear. If the slide doesn't go all the way back, the pistol will NOT function properly resulting in jams, and the slide failing to lock back on the last round. If you know that you're going to be shooting lower or higher power ammo it's a simple 30 sec. procedure to change the recoil spring. Last try a different brand of ammo. Ammo that sits on the shelves or in a warehouse for multiples of years can lose some of it's potency no matter what brand, and there's a lot of that out there now as manufactures have been scrambling to keep up with demand.
Lastly clean, clean, clean. 90% of the time when these guns don't fire it's because poor maintenance. When cleaning don't forget those mags. These are blow back pistols which means a lot of crap ....... well blows back every time you shoot them and some right down the mag. I clean mine, mags and all, every time I shoot. Hope this helps.
Bill
Shoot first, Shoot straight, and hit what you're aiming at, if you can do these things and have six rounds of ammo, you'll have two thirds more than you need to prevail.
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