Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigger!

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Hastings
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by Hastings »

losingle wrote:What year mfg. is your p-64?
1976
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lklawson
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by lklawson »

Hastings wrote:Thanks for the welcome I've been lurking around here for a year and figured it was about time I contributed something.Has as been stated all these pistols have rebounding hammers and at rest (hammer down) safety off you can't just push the hammer all the way forward, but what my bench testing is telling me is that if the hammer is pulled back and released with 2/3 of a swing momentum carries it past that point and then it comes back to rest (rebounds). At least on the two Polish models. Dropping it on it's muzzle would not have that extra 2/3 swing of inertia so I don't know.I ain't gonna drop mine to find out. I know I won't carry em safety off no more. Glad the Original poster is OK and humble enough to tell on himself. Probably saved one of us a hole in the leg.
This is why a few people have bobbed the hammer level with the rear of the slide. No worries of hammer impact, no worries of the hammer snagging and being partially drawn back.

Of course, it also means that you can't thumb-cock the hammer to SA and you can't thumb-lower the hammer either.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
The Cheapskate's Guide to Gun Cleaning and Maintenance - "You shouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars on expensive gun cleaning an maintenance products. Find out how to save money with inexpensive alternatives that work just as well."
Diesel McBadass
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by Diesel McBadass »

mines a 75, wonder if its safe to go safety off, safety is too stiff to give me confidence in getting it off under stress and trigger weighs a ton to pull.
Diesel McBadass
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by Diesel McBadass »

just tried the thing with a pen in the barrel my 1975 can hit firing pin wthout trigger pulled.

Any way to lighten the safety?
tai
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by tai »

lklawson wrote: This is why a few people have bobbed the hammer level with the rear of the slide. No worries of hammer impact, no worries of the hammer snagging and being partially drawn back.

Of course, it also means that you can't thumb-cock the hammer to SA and you can't thumb-lower the hammer either.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

That is certainly a disadvantage not being able to thumb-cock the bobbed hammer but there would never be a reason to thumb-lower it either due to the decocker.
tai
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by tai »

Diesel McBadass wrote:just tried the thing with a pen in the barrel my 1975 can hit firing pin wthout trigger pulled.

Any way to lighten the safety?
Don't know the answer to your question but I've removed the slide and lubricated the area where the decocker/safety operates. Believe I used Rem Oil or CLP, don't remember which one. It has made it easier to engage/disengage a bit.

Do recall a post 'somewhere' where what turned out to be an expensive 'paste' of some kind was recommended to lubricate in that area. Checked for the product on Amazon and would think the 'paste' or whatever it was would take very little to use successfully. Don't recall the name of the product and could not find the post on some forum where it had been mentioned, sorry.

However, the jar it came in cost over $30.00-you get a lot, but dismissed the notion due to its cost. YMMV.

Later, and unrelated to the 'paste' I referred to, above, did a search and believe Norm here had recommended lubricating that area where the decocker operates with a mixture of graphite and oil.

Note: some people here may remove the safety/decocker, and file/polish parts, whatever, I don't mess with my gun and, particularly with respect to this firearm, am of the notion 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. IOW, I don't go beyond a basic field strip due to my own limitations. And knowing one's limitations in this area might save one a lot of 'aggravation'- at least that has been my experience. YMMV.
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by manicmechanic »

Usually the pin that rides in the safety gets pointy and likes to bind when rotating the decocker. You can reshape the plunger/pin and the decocker/safety detente holes, so the plunger/pin doesn't jam and stick, but still needs to hold position of the decocker, whether in safe or fire position.
losingle
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by losingle »

I cut two coils from the detent safety spring. Works better, still a little stiff.
tai
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Re: MY DECISION TO CARRY IN CONDITION 3, but...read!

Post by tai »

Hastings wrote:I tested all my 9x18's. Empty brown bear steel case in the chamber no mag. Safety/decocker off (red showing) hammer pulled back 2/3 of the way and released.
Makarov PM did not discharge.
PA 63 did not discharge.
P 64 discharged.
VZ 82 did not discharge.
P 83 discharged.
Primer indents on both were substantial, not full hammer strikes but obviously enough.
Scares me, I've carried both of those a lot fully loaded hammer down safety off.
The following only relates to my decision in light of becoming familiar with the firearm, reading numerous threads here and elsewhere, and especially because I am left-handed:

As a leftie, when carrying in a pocket or any other holster, I will do so in Condition 3, only.

Firearm is completely safe that way- no worries, and though I would have to rack the slide- at least first shot would be in SA mode.

Yes, it is a 'trade-off'- but I feel good about it and will train that way.

I just feel that it's not worth the risk to carry with safety OFF, and (as a leftie) I don't savor in an emergency having to take the safety OFF and then fire first in DA mode, even though my trigger is not all that bad.

(If I were right-handed, I would carry with round in chamber, safety ON [Condition 2?]).

Later: I changed my mind (no, I am not a 'girly-man')! :shock:

Will carry with safety ON (with chambered round)!

Too much work (and delay involved) to rack slide in emergency (reasonably sure my recoil spring is the heaviest offered-guessing 22#).

Safety ON is also consistent with my racking of slide at range and I always chamber first round that way with this firearm (and with my Beretta 92 series-but with that I thereafter disengage the safety as there's a firing pin safety block. I never carry the Beretta, but definitely safe to leave that way for home defense).

First shot will have to be DA with the P-64.

I am going to leave my original decision posted to aid anyone who is going through the process of deciding upon carry condition.

In any event, the P-64 firearm should, IMHO, be carried with safety ON if there's a round in the chamber. Remember, it is not a 'fool-proof' Sig-Sauer with a decocker only and firing pin block. For that, or similar to that, the safety must be engaged on the P-64.
tlk67
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by tlk67 »

MY P-64 will not fire when the hammer is drawn partially back and released. The way the hammer stops before meeting the firing pin (assuming finger off the trigger) is similar to how the Walther P-series works with the hammer stop feature. The PP, PPK, and PPKs also only have locked firing pins with the safety on and common instruction with them is to carry safety on. My two PPK pistols have been used as backup and off-duty carry pieces as has my P64. I normally shoot left-handed, and know from experience that in that grave moment of need I may well only have one hand available. Thus, FOR ME, Condition 3 is a no-go. As my P64 (and it's Walther cousins) have proven safe in my tests, I carry them safety off when toted as the primary piece (i.e. for left hand).

Just to clarify, that is MY particular weapon, tested by me, and carried to suit MY needs on MY responsibility. To each their own, and the vast differences of experienced posted here shows that the owners of these and many other pistols need to make INFORMED choices.
tai
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by tai »

Thank you for your comments.

Actually, I still came to the conclusion to carry with safety ON in spite of the fact that the hammer's 'tooth arrestor' in mine (similar to hammer-drop catch or half or quarter-cock) seems to work fine with mine as well. In earlier posts I reported that in about 30 consecutive tries at cocking the hammer back just shy of full cock and then releasing it did not ignite any primers on live ammunition-and, there were no light strikes.

But for other reasons, primarily concerning a drop of the firearm on hammer or directly on muzzle, I find it better FOR ME to have the safety engaged.

It is certainly safER to do it that way, which is the recommended method of carry.

Then again, it's also recommended method of carry for the Beretta 92FS, but I see no need to carry safety ON with that weapon, though I do with the P-64. But the two firearms' passive safety mechanisms differ greatly.

There's no doubt the Beretta has a number of 'passive' safety mechanisms while on the other hand to achieve in the P-64 those same 'passive' safety effects one must actively engage the manual safety. It's certainly outdated technology in the P-64. and we all know that. We still may enjoy the firearm safely and its 'outdated' safety features may be part of the historical appeal to some, but not me.

One has to weigh the individual risks vs. benefits and make an informed decision and take responsibility for it, I do agree. A lot of that may have to do with your individual circumstances. For instance, law enforcement officers may have the greater need to deploy the weapon in spite of the fact that many have never even drawn their weapons, much less fired them in defense. Then again, they are more likely to be engaged in an incident where shots may be fired.

Thanks again for your post.
whitelightning777
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by whitelightning777 »

It's probably best to carry with the hammer unobstructed. Do consider that this gun was carried by police and military for years without too many problems. Choose your holster carefully by being one made specifically for the gun, not a genetic one size sorta fits all item.

Image

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The other gun is a tokarev TT-C


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Rrm64
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by Rrm64 »

I have three of these fine weapons. 1970, 1972 and 1973.

The 1970 does not move the pen when I retract and drop the hammer (without touching the trigger). Both the 1972 and the 1973 DO send the pen flying when I retract and drop the hammer.

I have thoroughly inspected all of them and they are 100% functional. I would speculate that some were manufactured differently than others. YMMV.

rrm64
gemini1
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by gemini1 »

^ Interesting. I got curious by this and tried it on my 1976 stamped P64. With the hammer fully cock, the pencil did fly out about 8" above the muzzle. With hammer retracted about 3/8" no movement, but when its over 1/2", the pencil didn't fly out, but I can see a little movement. Not sure if this is due to the rubber being shaken as the pistol moves when I released the trigger. But it is kinda worrisome to have a live round and the chamber and this were to happen.
I guess the only way to confirm this is to do the same method with a live round, and see what happens.
snailman153624
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by snailman153624 »

I would not suggest doing this with a live round...the slide will come back faster than you can react and could easily break your finger.
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