Safe Carry with chamber loaded?

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boreal1
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Safe Carry with chamber loaded?

Post by boreal1 »

My incoming P64 may well be used as a CCW pistol once I get the cosmoline out, swap springs and verify reliability with JHP ammo.

But the question that has been occurring to me is weather or not I can safely carry the P64 with the hammer down on a loaded chamber with the safety off. Anyone who knows this answer please clue me in, thanks.

Boreal1
blackblade
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Safe Carry with chamber loaded?

Post by blackblade »

I carry mine with one in the pipe. No problem. The heavy DA trigger is just an additional safety for my purposes - even with the lighter Wolf spring.
jpnjross
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Safe Carry with chamber loaded?

Post by jpnjross »

Though I do not have a c.c. at this time, my stock p-64 with the factory springs has such a heavy pull I dont see how it could be an issue having a round in the chamber with the hammer at rest. The trigger pull is extremely heavy and I have often wondered if this was designed that way with just that situation in mind. I would reccomend that you get yours and become familar with it and decide for yourself. Remember that it is a military pistol and and all the fluff and butter that comes as standard on civillan arms doesn't apply with these.
jbabbler
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Safe Carry with chamber loaded?

Post by jbabbler »

If the safety is OFF and you drop the gun directly on the hammer it very well could AD. With the safety on, the firing pin is protected by the safety block and cannot be struck by the hammer. I love my P64 and carry it everywhere but the PA-63 and R61 have a true firing pin safety that actually blocks the firing pin from moving forward unless th trigger is pulled. The P64 does not have that feature.
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heavyduty77

Safe Carry with chamber loaded?

Post by heavyduty77 »

If you examine the P-64 safety and firing pin (see pictures), you'll notice that when the safety is ON, there is a slot in the safety that engages a groove in the firing pin that captures the lug at the rear of the pin and absolutely prevents the pin from going forward (even if the pistol is dropped). At the same time, the safety de-cocks the hammer and blocks it from making any contact with the firing pin; thus providing excellent protection for the operator IF USED!

Image

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I posted the following reply in another post and think it may be worth repeating here:

Here is my reasoning for learning to use the safety at all times. Many posters state that they carry with a round in the chamber without having the safety ON. They use the very heavy DA pull and the "rebound" position of the hammer on the P-64 as their rationale / excuse for doing so. I won't argue that the DA trigger pull is indeed quite heavy. Remember though, when dry firing or practicing your draw, the P-64 will always operate in the DA mode.

Now let's say that you are involved in a self-defense incident or are doing some intense training, drawing from your holster, using live ammunition. Adrenalin is pouring into your system and your brain and motor skills aren't operating at their optimal level of performance. You fire a few rounds and go to put the pistol back into your holster as you always have done. Because the P-64 is of the DA / SA design, and you have just fired some live rounds, the pistol is now fully cocked in SINGLE ACTION MODE! And, since you NEVER, EVER have used your safety (remember, you've always depended on the heavy DA trigger pull to act as your safety), while putting the pistol back into your holster in this stressful situation, your finger is just barely touching the trigger. The act of inserting the pistol into your holster slightly wedges your finger against the holster and, due to the really light SA trigger pull on the P-64, pushes on the trigger and fires the chambered round. Result: a "cowboy limp" if you're lucky, much worse if you're not.

LEARN TO USE THE SAFETY! After a little practice you'll find that it’s not all that difficult to flip it OFF while drawing. If it doesn't operate smoothly and easily.......correct it! Just my opinion.
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dfunk
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Safe Carry with chamber loaded?

Post by dfunk »

heavyduty77 wrote:You fire a few rounds and go to put the pistol back into your holster as you always have done.
Not bloody likely!

If it's situation #1 (self defense), the only time I'll let go of it is to set it on the ground to step away after said incident.

If it's #2 (training), then the adrenaline isn't there, and if I'm reholstering as I "always have done", then the pistol gets decocked. It never gets put away anywhere with a cocked hammer.

Where I do agree with you is that the P64 does not have a separate drop-safety other than the decocker safety (ie, no plunger setup - think series 80). This is a deal-breaker for some, and means you must use a proper holster (which still doesn't guarantee anything). Carrying a loaded gun is a risk.
Last edited by dfunk on February 5th, 2010, 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jbabbler
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Safe Carry with chamber loaded?

Post by jbabbler »

However, as Dickfunk stated, if that is an issue to you then I would recommend the R61 or SMC918 as an alternate slim 9x18 carry gun.
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Safe Carry with chamber loaded?

Post by primarchbentley »

... Sounds like, if I get a dog from my next J&G order (aka. internal parts gun), it's time to make a rig and try some drop testing out in BLM lands (desert). Maybe that could finally put the issue to rest.

So, gentlemen, what would be the height? 20' might be pushing limits of what I could easily do, but how about 15'? That enough to satisfy the range of "everyday conditions" drops?
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dfunk
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Safe Carry with chamber loaded?

Post by dfunk »

I'm pretty sure most state tests are conducted at heights of 1 meter and must be dropped on a slab of concrete. I could be wrong though (as usual ;) ).
boreal1
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Safe Carry with chamber loaded?

Post by boreal1 »

Thanks for the replies.

I have no problem using a safety as a decocker, I have been doing that for years. My experience with my Beretta 92fs got me used to how that kind of manual safety works.

What may or may not be a deal breaker for me is weather or not I must carry the P-64 with the safety engaged when a round is chambered. From what I gather from the replies, is that it is necessary to prevent an AD should I drop or mishandle the p-64.

Having to disengage a manual safety during a SD situation may require too much time. Or so I fear.

I have not made any firm decisions about the fate of my newly acquired P-64. I will take it to the range a put a few rounds down range at some bulls-eye and Zombie targets before I reach my decision.
jbabbler
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Safe Carry with chamber loaded?

Post by jbabbler »

I carry mine holstered, OWB, chamber loaded, safety Off.
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boomer
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Safe Carry with chamber loaded?

Post by boomer »

Well I tried to make my P 64 fire by beating on the hammer with a brass hammer to simulate a dropped pistol. There is just not enough mass in the firing pin to overcome the spring tension and cause an inertia ignition. The hammer sits on the safety rollers on both sides of the firing pin and that absorbs the impacts.

I am not going to say it is impossible but, I will venture an educated guess the it is not likely to AD if dropped. I would be more concerned with a person trying to grab a falling gun and causing an AD.

I also noticed that when ever you buy a recoil spring from Wolf they will give you a firing pin spring that is 40% stronger just for this purpose as well.
josey88
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Safe Carry with chamber loaded?

Post by josey88 »

I carry my HK45C loaded, one in the chamber , hammer down , safety on . If I have to use the gun and fire a shot , all I have to do is flip down the safety and I am ready to rumble ... I guess that I can use the same tecnique on the p-64 that I will be purchasing soon... !!!
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dfunk
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Safe Carry with chamber loaded?

Post by dfunk »

boomer wrote:Well I tried to make my P 64 fire by beating on the hammer with a brass hammer to simulate a dropped pistol. There is just not enough mass in the firing pin to overcome the spring tension and cause an inertia ignition. The hammer sits on the safety rollers on both sides of the firing pin and that absorbs the impacts.

I am not going to say it is impossible but, I will venture an educated guess the it is not likely to AD if dropped. I would be more concerned with a person trying to grab a falling gun and causing an AD.

I also noticed that when ever you buy a recoil spring from Wolf they will give you a firing pin spring that is 40% stronger just for this purpose as well.
The concern is not from the rear, but of the pistol landing on the muzzle end. The FP is free floating when the safety is off, and well you know....inertia.
kurremkarm
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Safe Carry with chamber loaded?

Post by kurremkarm »

I would rather take my chances with an AD, hammer down, safety off with one in the chamber than to have to remember to take the safety off when drawing my gun against an armed foe.

I don't feel the safety is in a good position on the p-64 for rapid use and as far as i am concerned it is only a decocker, the number one safety is between your ears and the number two safety is your finger.

Also if I shoot a bad guy I won't be using the safety until there is no danger and most likely won't have any shots left to fire unless I reloaded.
Last edited by kurremkarm on February 8th, 2010, 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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